Head & neck restraint comparisons

[Eagle7]

Santa brought me a Hybrid Pro Rage. At least I think I have it - the SFI sticker says it was manufactured in March 2012, so maybe I'm just dreaming.

I figured I would test-fit my Bell M2 SA2000 helmet. Make my mistakes on it instead of a new one. But the screws are way too short to go through the foam liner, and that liner is not about to budge. I assume the newer helmets are designed differently so the screws will work?

[gran racing]

Screws work fine on my old SA2000 helmet. I'm sure it has more to do with manufacturers but am surprised if the newer helmet you have doesn't work since the HANS mount would go in the same location. I'd probably put some loctite or something else to keep them from backing out.

[Eagle7]

Don't have a new helmet yet. I'm sure it'll be fine when I get one.

[FastM3]

Great Discussion

Here is an entry I posted on that Spec Miata site a while back. I purchased the Pro Rage because of its side impact rotection as I don't have a Halo seat.

Linda still uses our original Hans device and we just got it back from re-certification (fairly quick and painless. Just negotiate your return shipping cost.) I noticed that the Hans also has an FIA sticker on it, so ..does it really need to be re-certified by SFI??

By the way..if you use a Hans make sure you have the sliding tether so you can turn your head a bit.

My Hybrid Pro Rage has the belt o-rings (SAS). Once belted in the car you can feel that these add extra support and they are important for side impact protection.

I still agree with my comments from a year ago. It is a pain to get on alone..it is handy to have someone help or have some sort of mirror to help you see what you are trying to accomplish.


Posted by FastM3 on 12-08-2010 07:28 PM:

I have used a Hans for a year and have been using a Hybrid Pro Rage this season. (Two Seasons now)

Plus
1 Provides side to side support
2 Seems to not allow as much frontal movement as a Hans
3 Does not dig into the shoulders. You feel the belts and not the device.
4 It is supposed to reduce forces in a shallow angle impact (some side force) better than the Hans. I don't have a halo seat but a right side net will be in for next season.

Minus
1 More complicated to put on. Must slip rings onto the lap belt (not really an issue)
2 Helmet clips are a little more complicated.
3 Dont forget to attach the quick release to the velcro patches that you install on the front of the helmet.
3 I install the harness and clip the helmet clips before getting into the car.
4 Since it uses straps (or belts) it has a limited lifetime. 3 years I think. Not sure if you can return it to be re belted.

Watch all the videos you can find and then decide.

Phil
Kogan Racing # 38

[tom91ita]

Phil,

why is the quick release for the Hybrid Pro Rage important? isn't it relatively easy to get out of the car with it on and attached to your helmet?

tia, tom

[JLawton]

Thanks Phil.

Anyone have experience using the Pro Rage and the Issac? I'm looking for ease of putting them on (clipping in).

[lateapex911]

Great Discussion

Here is an entry I posted on that Spec Miata site a while back. I purchased the Pro Rage because of its side impact rotection as I don't have a Halo seat.

Linda still uses our original Hans device and we just got it back from re-certification (fairly quick and painless. Just negotiate your return shipping cost.) I noticed that the Hans also has an FIA sticker on it, so ..does it really need to be re-certified by SFI??

By the way..if you use a Hans make sure you have the sliding tether so you can turn your head a bit.

My Hybrid Pro Rage has the belt o-rings (SAS). Once belted in the car you can feel that these add extra support and they are important for side impact protection.

I still agree with my comments from a year ago. It is a pain to get on alone..it is handy to have someone help or have some sort of mirror to help you see what you are trying to accomplish.


Posted by FastM3 on 12-08-2010 07:28 PM:

I have used a Hans for a year and have been using a Hybrid Pro Rage this season. (Two Seasons now)

Plus
1 Provides side to side support
2 Seems to not allow as much frontal movement as a Hans
3 Does not dig into the shoulders. You feel the belts and not the device.
4 It is supposed to reduce forces in a shallow angle impact (some side force) better than the Hans. I don't have a halo seat but a right side net will be in for next season.

Minus
1 More complicated to put on. Must slip rings onto the lap belt (not really an issue)
2 Helmet clips are a little more complicated.
3 Dont forget to attach the quick release to the velcro patches that you install on the front of the helmet.
3 I install the harness and clip the helmet clips before getting into the car.
4 Since it uses straps (or belts) it has a limited lifetime. 3 years I think. Not sure if you can return it to be re belted.

Watch all the videos you can find and then decide.

Phil
Kogan Racing # 38

Phil, point of order...SFI certifies nothing*. The manufacturer certifies that it meets the 38.1 specification... SFI grants the manufacturer the use of the sticker, and we all pay for that with every sale.

*Further, if you read SFis literature, they clearly state that they don't certify anything, and they are not to held liable in any event ....according to them, they provide zero legal umbrella to any user, either individual or sanctioning body.

The whole recert thing is rather sketchy, in my eyes. What is the story here? Do the parts have failure modes expected in a certain period? Do they automatically replace parts? Does HANS give you a
"new & improved" Hans yoke since everybody and his brother has had the belts slip off the original ones??

I'm glad that the recert is 'painless'. ...but to me, it's just another 'pile on', like the belt manufacturer(s) who said the original, tested and 'certified' 5 year cert was 2.5 times too long, and they all had to be replaced after 2 years....and, just coincidentally, they all sold two and a half times the units per year....

[gran racing]

Jeff, you'll get used to putting the clips on the helmet. S.S. said they have some other type of mount which is a bit easier, but I haven't seen it.

The ISAAC was a PITA to get used to IMO, so this really that much worse.

[Knestis]

I tested a Rage at the end of this year. It's a little more fiddly to get into but I always seemed to have less trouble plugging in my ISAAC than others I know. Like Dave said, essentially the same.

K

[StephF]

We just got a pair of Hybrid Pro Rages. (anyone want to buy a pair of used Issac's?)
I don't know, verdict's out for me still. We measured where and how the rep told us too, but neither one of these is sitting well on us.
Mine is sitting a full 4" higher on my chest than where they had me measure (and going north on a woman's chest can mean a significant elevation difference, even if you are only hiking in the foothills...)
If I can't get it to sit lower, where they had me measure, I am not sure it will fit over my suit.
And oddly, the back strap is bulging out into thin air. I couldn't get it tightened down yet the front was wicked tight.
Ed's fit kind of strange too. We have the non extra strap versions.
Anyone else have this issue? (Well, maybe not the foothills one....)

[FastM3]

Phil,

why is the quick release for the Hybrid Pro Rage important? isn't it relatively easy to get out of the car with it on and attached to your helmet?

tia, tom

Tom
I think you need the quick release as it is the only way to disconect (I don't think there is another option for connecting to the helmet). The velcro in the front of the helmet is to attach them so you know where to locate them.
I get in the car fully set up. Usually after a run I pull the quick releases as I enter the pit area so I can remove the helmet first. Just as a comfort issue. You can get out of the car with no problem with everything on.

Phil # 38 SM, SM2 ITA

[FastM3]

Stephanie

You may want to go to a dealer with your Hybrid Pro Rage devices, helmets and your drivers suit and see if they can help you set it up correclty. There are several adjustments that can be confusing.

Seymour Enterprises is on rt 20 in Marlboro Ma. (I know it is a hike for you guys but maybe you can convince Ed to take you out to dinner as well)

http://www.theracedepot.com/product18.htm

Bob Seymour is very helpful. Give him a call.

They also sponsor the Race Car Show that happens in Feb or March in Marlboro. Safety Solutions was there at the time I bought mine and they helped to adjust it right there. I am not sure what the support will be now that Safety Solutions is owned by Simpson.

Phil Kogan

[StephF]

Hey thanks.
We need helmets too, and I know Ed wants to try his on before buying it.
I would prefer not to go to Racearama. The last time I went it was a dud. I'll look up the Marlboro show too.

[FastM3]

Stephanie

They started this show because of the issues with RaceArama.

It is a smaller show but there are lots of Helmet Suppliers there as well. I got a great deal on some Carbonex Underwear for Linda and I.

THe show is mostly Circle track but is becoming more a mix of racing types. FlatOut was there last year and I think there may have been an SCCA table as well.

The show is promoted by Seymour Enterprises and they have a display as well. I found that you can negotiate with the retail vendors but not with the manufacturers. I wound up buying my Safety Solutions Hybrid pro rage from Lajoi of Seating. They were the table next to Safety Solutions and Safety Solutions handed the device to Lajoi who sold it to me at a discount. Got It?? I was looking for a set of scales from a manufacturer but they would not budge from the list price.

Another thing on helmets and other safety gear. HMS in Peabody (Joe Marko) has several Helmet lines in stock to try on. Their prices are very close to SafeRacer. They do a lot of safety gear for Nascar. They know thier stuff. Look up the website. They also sponsor an open house with the BMW club sometime early March and give good discounts on the day. Don't forget to take a balaclava when testing.

Phil

[artful-dodger]

After following this thread I made the decision to go with the R3 Rage...right price and the opportunity to get protection while riding right seat with student in street car 3-point belts.

It turns out that Simpson has discontinued the R3 Rage. So the only option to keep the 3-point option is to step up to the $1000 R3. So back to the decision process.

There are some dealers that have the R3 Rage (most only have small and large sizes) left in stock, but you may lose one year of certification since they would have been manufactured sometime in 2011. I did call Safety Solutions and they say that they will continue to recertify the R3 Rage even though they no longer produce them.

I do have another question to provide to anyone actually using either R3 design (or a hybrid...) When properly tightened around the chest, do these restraints cause any problems for circulation in a cool shirt?