Head and Neck Haters...Watch This

[tom91ita]

Jake,

based on your test fits, what do you recommend for the more than 2 less than 4 weekend per year budget aware racer?

thanks.

[gran racing]

Unfortuately, the HANS. And I don't like them. I think that in the end Jake and I will agree on our real opinions - we weren't that impressed with any of them. So choose the best of the worst options available. Certainly made me appreciate how the ISAAC device works and felt.

The Hybrid Pro Rage wasn't comfortable and awkward. Supposidly the clips that go to the belt help in side impacts. Guess it makes sense. The R3 was easier to get on, but without the seat pad I didn't care for it.

Spoke with the inventor of the Safety Solutions product (Trevor Ashline) the other day for a bit. A few things I wasn't aware of when we did the testing / a correction to what I was previously told. The Hybrid Rage most definately needs the belts to stay put, but supposidly with it's design of rubber it stays put more than the HANS.

The R3 is more designed for other types of racing and works without relying on the belts. Said it's much more popular in offroad racing. Think he said boat racing, but don't quote me on that.

Comparing the data of the specs was more than a challenge. Hell, Safety Solutions initially told me that before releasing the upper neck tension tests he'd need to clear things with their........marketing department. As you already know, SFI can't divulge the info since it's not theirs.

The article and video from our get together are still in progress. Hopefully it'll be completed soon. Video editing is a major PITA. lol

[lateapex911]

Jake,

based on your test fits, what do you recommend for the more than 2 less than 4 weekend per year budget aware racer?

thanks.

Well, honestly, I think it's a big ole mess, and very difficult to decipher the actual performance.
Considerations:

Your car. Lets face it, a 50MPH hit into tire barriers in a sedan based car with a full cage and sheet metal is a lot different than an Indy car into the wall at Texas. Doubtful many of us NEED super head on performance. So deciphering the numbers might not be THE most important aspect.

Your seat. Any lateral protection? Some H&NRs do a better job here. If your seat isn't a halo style then maybe that model with better offset performance will help you keep the seat you have. (less $ spent in the end)

Budget: these things aren't cheap. Nor are the upgrades (new seat) to make them work as well as the Issac, if you used that previously.

Comfort. The R3 fit me fine but I guess my shoulder blades fit it well. Others wanted the seat pad. They Hybrid seemed way too cumbersome. The HANS kinda annoyed my shoulders and I hate the thing hanging on me as I get out. But thats a real personal call.

Principals/Ethics: SFI and HANS clearly wrote the spec that has resulted in, to be blunt, a bunch of crappy solutions. If the makers of the HANS were really interested in real safety, they'd have written a spec that had design freedom in it as opposed to language designed to protect HANS and help them write patent infringement lawsuits. They were quite bright about that. SFI of course is guilty too, but we are in a box on that aspect. So, from a principal POV, some may avoid the HANS.

To answer your question, based on the info you've given, I'd search for a used HANS. Or i'd find a friend in another class that races and borrow his. It's not like a helmet where you sweat it up, and the sizing aspect is simpler. Heck buy him beers, or throw him a $20 for rent. If you payed $20/race, you'd have spent $180 after three seasons of your assumed schedule. In three years, maybe the landscape for H&NR will have changed.

I hope........

[mossaidis]

Guys, thank you for your advice so far. Your opinion is/will be invaluable for those that have not purchased anything yet, worry that the "sales" deadlines are quickly approaching and that spending $600 w/o any personal homework makes us think twice... three times, maybe four before spending that kind of money. I was really hoping the Hybrid would be better than the HANS in terms of comfort, perhaps not. Damn you SFI...

[gran racing]

I'm going mess around with the Hybrid one more time. There are guys who love it.

[Knestis]

I really liked the hybrid when I tried it. It's not nearly as fiddly as one might think, even if snapping into the D-rings required help.

K

[pitbull113]

ups just delivered my hybrid rage and though i haven't sat in the car yet or hooked it to my helmet it seems comfortable enough that i won't notice it on track. i'm a small guy 5ft 6in 160 lbs but i can see how larger guys (overweight) might find it cumbersome.

[gran racing]

OUCH! lol Maybe you're just tiny.

[lateapex911]

Yea, I know I'm not svelt, but I was a little insulted by that, LOL. 6'3" 215...

[gran racing]

Yeah but dude, you're a swimmer!

Okay, so in actuality I do give you tons of credit Jake, but you knew that already. 29 takes later, getting the "you suck" e-mail from Hollywood.....finally it's live on YouTube. A 4 minute video taking 3 plus hours to film? Grrr.

[pitbull113]

okay you guys know that wasn't directed at anyone in particular right? what i meant was there is very little adjustment in the straps and if you're not height weight proportional it might be a pita to get fitted right.

[tom91ita]

.....finally it's live on YouTube. A 4 minute video taking 3 plus hours to film? Grrr.

link?

[Hoof Hearted]

So I did my research (read Dave G's article!) and purchased the strap & buckle contraption (aka Hybrid Pro Rage) and I hate it. I am returning it for the clavicle crunching, belt slipping contraption (aka HANS).

I was enraged by the Rage with all the tethers, clips, straps, buckles... ...just cumbersome. Plus the SFI sticker date on the Rage was already a year old. When asking the SafeRacer dude for an exchange to the HANS, I requested a "fresh" sfi sticker... ...he said "it's like buying milk...". Well, when I buy milk, I pull the jug from the rear of the cooler, so please dig in the back of the rack...

Apparently, SafeRacer just got in a new shipment of "fresh" HANS, so we'll see.

Thanks Dave for putting together the test fittings!

[lateapex911]

The brilliant Hans spec bites again! Seems like you can build a unit that will meet the spec and avoid lawsuits, but nobody will buy it....

[Spinnetti]

jjj..The wrecked E30 is a friend of mine. He calculated the G load in excess of 160Gs. The H made the wreck survivable....period. If you can't see that I feel sorry for you. Chuck (Someone who has hit/been hit 5 separate impacts while wearing the HANS.)

Interesting. I had nearly the same hit. The sound and feel are one you never forget. Mine was at the IT fest years ago, at wide open throttle at the end of the main straight. My car was crushed worse than that as I had another car pile drive me in. They didn't have HANS back then, and I got out without anything sore whatsoever. My car was so bent that two of the wheels (kitty-corner) didn't even touch the ground. What does that video prove? Absolutely nothing. Continue the debate. This crazy rush to please insurers without reasonable cost/benefit drives me nuts. hardly worth doing anymore. Damn hans hurts my collarbone - I can't imagine how that would feel in a crash. Show me the stats from other kinds of racing that justify this madness. The circletrack guys somehow have thousands of races annually without changing belts, seats, window nets etc. ever two minutes don't they? Are they dying off in droves?

SCCA would be better off strictly policing contact instead. Its no thrill to throw out thousands every time some hothead is a jerk and leans off you - getting to be like a demolition derby.

[ITEGT]

Heres my post about the Hybrid over on C-C.com.

I linked it because of all the pictures.

http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums...181#post935181

If youre too lazy to click the link and are thinking about getting a Hybrid rage, be sure to order the M6 upgraded helmet latches and tethers. $65 more but well worth it.

The standard D rings are noisy and look like something I should hang the helmet up with, I called Safety Solutions and told them that too.

[Brettt]

Plus the SFI sticker date on the Rage was already a year old. When asking the SafeRacer dude for an exchange to the HANS, I requested a "fresh" sfi sticker... ...he said "it's like buying milk..."

I had the same thing happen to me, actually. The medium unit that I ordered showed up with a "Dec 2010" date stamped into the sticker. As the unit was new and there is NO reason in the world why I should have to pay to have it renewed a year earlier, I sent it back. They tried to give me some guff, not unlike they gave to you.

The main difference is that I talked to the guy at SafeRacer for a while and got them to RMA the unit in exchange of what should be a new one. The most recent email I've received said that while they (Simpson) didn't have any "new" units in stock, they sent it back to them and Simpson is currently putting a new SFI sticker on it and sending it back to me.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON that they shouldn't do exactly that for anyone who buys a product from them that has an expiration date due to an SFI sticker. BE FIRM with them and you'll get a new sticker.

[BruceG]

I had the same thing happen to me, actually. The medium unit that I ordered showed up with a "Dec 2010" date stamped into the sticker. As the unit was new and there is NO reason in the world why I should have to pay to have it renewed a year earlier, I sent it back. They tried to give me some guff, not unlike they gave to you.

The main difference is that I talked to the guy at SafeRacer for a while and got them to RMA the unit in exchange of what should be a new one. The most recent email I've received said that while they (Simpson) didn't have any "new" units in stock, they sent it back to them and Simpson is currently putting a new SFI sticker on it and sending it back to me.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON that they shouldn't do exactly that for anyone who buys a product from them that has an expiration date due to an SFI sticker. BE FIRM with them and you'll get a new sticker.

IMHO, I think we should all give a webseller like ogracing.com(an IT racer,as well) our business. I've had several run ins with Saferacer about items I've purchased,curt responses over the phone when I asked for a catalog, as there wasn't one with a recent order(now...What's up with that!!).

I think they have grown fat off of all of us...and forgotten customer service.

[924Guy]

+1 to that, especially a big thumbs up for OG Racing. I got my cage and fire system for the ITB car from them, and they've always been most excellent in customer service. They know how it's done right.

Saferacer, OTOH... not so much.