Turbo Diesel

[Conover]

Aside from ex TDI cup cars, will we find a home for Turbo Diesel powered cars in ST*?

[DoubleXL240Z]

Whoa, my 7.3l diesel in a Focus chassis!!!!! Front wheel drive too!!!
Going to need some big springs!!

[Greg Amy]

There's no restriction against 2L or below diesel engine in STL and/or turbo vehicles in STU. Gotta run the correct TIR for a turbo car and gotta meet 9.3.26 for fuel... - GA

[Conover]

There's no restriction against 2L or below diesel engine in STL and/or turbo vehicles in STU. Gotta run the correct TIR for a turbo car and gotta meet 9.3.26 for fuel... - GA

Ok, so this answer is just a touch confusing, what your saying is that a 2.0L Turbo Diesel would go into STU?

A naturally aspirated Diesel under 2.0L would be in STL?

is that it?

[Greg Amy]

Ok, so this answer is just a touch confusing, what your saying is that a 2.0L Turbo Diesel would go into STU?

A naturally aspirated Diesel under 2.0L would be in STL?

is that it?

Yup.

[Matt93SE]

to make it a bit more clear...

1. 2.0L and under are allowed in STL. Turbo engines are not permitted. Note there is no distinction between gas and diesel engines...

2. If the engine is turbo, then it can run in STU following their inlet restrictor scale. no distinction between gas/diesel here either.

[Greg Amy]

I'm sorry if I'm a bit "obtuse" on the regs, I just wasn't clear where the confusion is. STCS does not specify gas or diesel other than to refer the user to GCR 9.3.26 for fuel requirements, and 9.3.26 starts out with something like "permitted fuel is defined as gasoline or diesel fuel meeting these specs" blah, blah, blah. Ergo, diesels are allowed in Super Touring and must meet the same prep regs.

Now, we have a request on the table for an alternate turbo for the older 1.9L diesel, and we're trying to get specific turbo information from the guy in order to address that. If someone is really sharp on these engines we'd consider some kind of alternate turbo for the whole range, we just need specific information to list on an allowance line. I don't think we're at a point where we're willing to let turbodiesels run without restrictors, but given their limited RPM range I don't see the TIRs having much of a performance affect on them anyway (except the wallet).

Bring on the TDIs! If you want some alternate equipment, send us a note with what you're looking to do with supporting info on what will result, and be as specific as you can.

GA

[Conover]

Okay, so if someone were to take a VW Corrado and drop in a 2.0l Tdi from a newer car, that would be allowed in STU. Just want to make sure I dont spend a bunch if time on something that has no home.

Next I just need to find some more loot, isn't that always the issue?

[Greg Amy]

Yup. On both counts.

Do me a favor, Cam, and find a good alternate turbo that will work well on both the 1.9L and 2L TDI engines. We want something - specific - that will be more dependable and offer reasonable performance. - GA

[Matt93SE]

Yup.. the chassis is legal, and that's a legal engine from the same manufacturer..

So Greg.. here's a kicker for you..

D. Engines
1. Engines up to 6 cylinders and 3000 cubic centimeters factory
displacement are permitted, plus any others listed in 9.1.4.2.G.

[snip]

4. Compression ratio is limited to 12.0:1.

What's the compression ratio of a diesel engine? Maybe this should be addressed under E&O??

[Matt93SE]

Do me a favor, and find a good alternate engine that will work well on both the S13 and S14 240SX chassis. We want something - specific - that will be more dependable and offer reasonable performance. - GA

Fixed... :P

[Greg Amy]

Fixed... :P

Someone's not reading their Fastracks...

[Matt93SE]

I read it. I don't want *everyone* to benefit from a rule change, just me. :P
Besides, it's just proposed for now..
I'm not necessarily sure I want turbos for 'anything'.. but to allow imported engines on a case-by-case basis I would support. There are certain makes that would benefit from either aspect I guess, and both would help me. But back to the issue of helping me or helping everyone... ;P

[Greg Amy]

Goose<--->gander, all that.

Let's see what happens.

[Matt93SE]

yeah.. I'll have to think about that for a while. Not sure if I want to open that door to the $$$arms race$$$. If I do go for it, I'd have to know that it would be VERY sparingly applied.

What I DO know is that there's not an off-the-shelf engine in the US for Nissan that can compete with the 4cyl turbo cars that are dominating STU currently. At least nothing can compete without spending $15k on a GT-type grenade engine, and you're still 50-100hp shy of the turbo cars...

[Greg Amy]

Without going too far on a thread-jack...I can tell you that the current STAC intends to apply that allowance - if it happens - sparingly. However, just like today's Congress can't guarantee you that tomorrow's Congress won't change the laws, you can't count on that being an absolute forever. You have to look at today's verbiage and let your opinions be known based on the worst-case scenario of how it reads, not how you want it to read.

This request is simply a trial balloon, and not likely to result in much - if anything - in 2012. If given the opportunity we will develop a plan of action and a clear sense of direction prior to any implementation.

Then again, all of may get hit by a bus 15 minutes after the BoD says "okey dokey"...

GA

[Conover]

Yup. On both counts.

Do me a favor, Cam, and find a good alternate turbo that will work well on both the 1.9L and 2L TDI engines. We want something - specific - that will be more dependable and offer reasonable performance. - GA

That is a tall order. There are so many different wastegate configurations and manifolds I just don't see one turbo for all those applications. The 1.9L went through three generations itself, and the 2.0L common rail has electronically activated waste gate via a stepper motor rather than a traditional vacuum servo. Personally I was planning to use the stock turbo on the common rail, if that is the direction I end up going. It is a capable turbo from the factory, especially if you free it from it's DPF and EGR cooler, etc.

Now, if you want one replacement turbo for all three 1.9L variations, that is most likely possible, but probably not in the form of a direct bolt on application, it will probably require a custom tubular manifold. Is that what you are looking for?

I would say that we could start with the stock turbo from the 2.0L as the bench-mark to bring the 1.9 up to, that may be a reasonable expectation.

I have to confess that I am not 100% up to speed on all the aftermarket turbos and nozzles and so on available for these cars. Probably something I should research.

Have you had a request submitted already? Is that something I can look at, as a starting point?

[Greg Amy]

I'll send you a private email Cam, but we do have a request tabled right now for more info. Basically, the guy is requesting an alternate turbo for the 1999 that will allow it to make a bit more power than the small stock one. He hasn't really offered any specific options*. If we're going to make this allowance, then I'd at least like to make it applicable to the whole 1.9L line.

GA

* Competitor note: if you're going to make a request for deviations from the norm, be specific. Sending us a note saying "I want an alternate turbo that's better than what I have" and not providing any information or why you want it will at a minimum result in your item being "tabled for more information" and at worst "thank you for your input, car is classed correctly".

We are not going to do your homework for you. Be specific, provide supporting documentation (PDFs, docs, URLs, etc).

GA

[Conover]

This looks to be a fairly comprehensive list of options here:
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/tditurbo.htm

[Conover]

Yup.. the chassis is legal, and that's a legal engine from the same manufacturer..

So Greg.. here's a kicker for you..

What's the compression ratio of a diesel engine? Maybe this should be addressed under E&O??

23:1 or so

this does seem to be one item that could be a sticking point. . .