ITB Sentra - WTF?

[erlrich]

Was just perusing ITB specs, daydreaming about racing something that might actually have a chance at a win...but I digress...

Came across the B13 Sentra in ITB, and I see it is classed at 2520 lbs. I'm thinking, wow that's heavy for ITB, it must make gobs of power. I look it up and, um, no, not really - 110 HP and 108 TQ. So just for comparison, I check out the '03 Golf, which makes 115 HP and 122 TQ - and is listed at 2350 lbs!

So now I'm thinking, WTF? Is the Sentra one of those cars that got missed in the great realignment, or is there something I don't know about it? Can someone shed some light here?

Thanks.

[JeffYoung]

Correct. Probably not processed.

Process weight would be something like 2290 (110 x 1.25 x 17 x .98).

Was just perusing ITB specs, daydreaming about racing something that might actually have a chance at a win...but I digress...

Came across the B13 Sentra in ITB, and I see it is classed at 2520 lbs. I'm thinking, wow that's heavy for ITB, it must make gobs of power. I look it up and, um, no, not really - 110 HP and 108 TQ. So just for comparison, I check out the '03 Golf, which makes 115 HP and 122 TQ - and is listed at 2350 lbs!

So now I'm thinking, WTF? Is the Sentra one of those cars that got missed in the great realignment, or is there something I don't know about it? Can someone shed some light here?

Thanks.

[erlrich]

Correct. Probably not processed.

Process weight would be something like 2290 (110 x 1.25 x 17 x .98).

That sounds more like it - and with a 2300 lb curb weight it might actually make that weight even with a fat-ass like me in the seat.

Should I send a letter?

[lateapex911]

Why would you want to race a Sentra rather than your 240 Earl? Not for nothing, but your car is a proven front runner, while there are no Sentras built, and who knows how much $$ and development it would take to make one a front runner? MARRS aint weak in ITB!

[erlrich]

Why would you want to race a Sentra rather than your 240 Earl? Not for nothing, but your car is a proven front runner, while there are no Sentras built, and who knows how much $$ and development it would take to make one a front runner? MARRS aint weak in ITB!

Jake - not to start a big debate, but (and I know there are those who disagree) I'm 100% convinced the 240SX is done in ITA. Back when Stretch was winning at Atlanta, with a full-tilt, custom-everything, 100 lb lighter 240SX, he was winning with 1:43+ times. I know tracks change over the years, but I just don't see anyone getting one of these to run 41s at that track. Neal Harrison has one of the best built & driven 240s I've seen in the past few years, and he's still a couple of seconds off the ITA record at VIR on his best day.

And yeah, I know ITB is a very competitive class right now; that's why I'm looking there. I wouldn't want to run in a 'lame' class; hell I can go race with EMRA if I just want to collect a bunch of trophies. I know there have been some pretty fast Sentras in ITA (Crazy Joe's comes to mind immediately), so I think one of these - at the correct weight - could do pretty well in ITB. And like I said, I'm just daydreaming right now; but when I came across that listing I just thought it looked funny.

[Knestis]

Come to the darrrrk siiiide....

K

[erlrich]

Come to the darrrrk siiiide....

K

I'm sensing a disturbance in the farce...

[gran racing]

Why not one of the Civics?

Actually...why not just buy a fast ITB car instead of building one? Save yourself a ton of time and money. You've already been doing it the hard way with the 240, no?

[Andy Bettencourt]

Jake - not to start a big debate, but (and I know there are those who disagree) I'm 100% convinced the 240SX is done in ITA. Back when Stretch was winning at Atlanta, with a full-tilt, custom-everything, 100 lb lighter 240SX, he was winning with 1:43+ times.

We SHOULD debate this. What times did Serra win with? Alex? Ya know Ruck ran in the 41's this year right? How do you explain that? Do you think that if Stretch built a car now, and developd it, he wouldn't be any faster?

Tracks change, tires get better, people develop. Look at how much faster Moser has gone in just the last 2 years under intense pressure. NOBODY thought there was anything left in that car - but guess what? It NEVER STOPS.

[erlrich]

Why not one of the Civics?

Actually...why not just buy a fast ITB car instead of building one? Save yourself a ton of time and money. You've already been doing it the hard way with the 240, no?

Dave - I don't speak Honda; if I were going to go with a known quantity I would take the Golf.

And I know conventional wisdom says buy rather than build, but I dont' think this works for everyone. In my case there are a number of reasons:

1. I'm one of those guys who likes to know every little modification that has been done to the car, and if it was done right. The only way I would ever buy a built car would be if it were a pro build directly from a place like FM or Brimtek, and unfortunately something like that is waaaaay outside my budget.

2. I've seen (and heard about) some of the shit guys have done, even on the fast cars, and I don't want to have to worry about whether my car is legal or not, or if it is going to blow up the next time I go on track.

3. I like the idea of building something different - as long as I think it has a shot at being competitive. Ok, so I'm a little weird that way.

4. I really, really like the idea of being competitive in a car that I built with my own hands. I can't imagine anything more satisfying.

[mossaidis]

I am not sure where the debate is ... the listing is incorrect and it needs to be fixed. EOT ok, let the hijacking begin! oh, it already did... teehee

Ironically,
Mickey

[Robbie]

The B13 Sentra has a ton of power being robbed by its crappy exhaust manifold. I think you'll easily be able to make process power on one. Sport Compact Car did a project on one back in 2001 and even without ECU tuning and a street tuned header, it made some large gains. I'll see if I can dig up the issue.

[Matt93SE]

https://improvedtouring.com...ad.php?t=29893

You know you want it...

[erlrich]

We SHOULD debate this. What times did Serra win with? Alex? Ya know Ruck ran in the 41's this year right? How do you explain that? Do you think that if Stretch built a car now, and developd it, he wouldn't be any faster?

Tracks change, tires get better, people develop. Look at how much faster Moser has gone in just the last 2 years under intense pressure. NOBODY thought there was anything left in that car - but guess what? It NEVER STOPS.

Andy, you're probably right; given your background & experience your opinion is certainly worth about 1k times what mine is. I can only go by what I've seen for myself. My belief is Bob had already figured out how to get everything he could out of that car when he was winning with it. He had one of the best builders in the country doing his engines; and still he was blowing up engines that are generally thought of as pretty indestructible. He had the best suspension (Ohlins shocks IIRC), was running a custom header back before they were the norm, had spherical bearings everywhere, and the budget to make it all work. I doubt you'll ever see another 240SX as fast as his was. I would love for someone to prove me wrong, but until that happens I'm sticking with my opinion.

BTW - you're a pretty savy guy, and from what I hear a pretty ok driver (), why do you run a Miata in ITA and not a 240SX or Intega?

[erlrich]

https://improvedtouring.com...ad.php?t=29893

You know you want it...

Nice ka - but wrong class...

[Andy Bettencourt]

BTW - you're a pretty savy guy, and from what I hear a pretty ok driver (), why do you run a Miata in ITA and not a 240SX or Intega?

Those up here know I have a 240SX coupe 'thing'. Always wanted one. I have seen the dyno sheets on built motors with a Wolf ECU and 'Stretch' header, and the power is class-leading. People who have driven them and SM's tell me they are the best handling cars they have ever driven (with spherical suspension).

When I sold my ITS RX-7, I built an SM for business reasons. Turned it into an ITA car for business reasons. I didn't go with the 240 because nobody could keep them together, not because they can't be fast. Teg? FWD sucks.

If I could buld and own any IT cars in class they would be:

ITR: E46 325 Coupe
ITS: 240Z
ITA: 240SX Coupe
ITB: Corolla GTS
ITC: Datsun 510

[shwah]

So just for comparison, I check out the '03 Golf, which makes 115 HP and 122 TQ - and is listed at 2350 lbs!

It doesn't change your point at all, but IIRC the 93-98 Golf was moved up to 2400, and the 99-04 Golf should have been also...

[Matt93SE]

Those up here know I have a 240SX coupe 'thing'. Always wanted one. I have seen the dyno sheets on built motors with a Wolf ECU and 'Stretch' header, and the power is class-leading. People who have driven them and SM's tell me they are the best handling cars they have ever driven (with spherical suspension).

When I sold my ITS RX-7, I built an SM for business reasons. Turned it into an ITA car for business reasons. I didn't go with the 240 because nobody could keep them together, not because they can't be fast. Teg? FWD sucks.

If I could buld and own any IT cars in class they would be:

ITR: E46 325 Coupe
ITS: 240Z
ITA: 240SX Coupe
ITB: Corolla GTS
ITC: Datsun 510

what's the common problem with reliability? I have a 4-valve engine so life's a bit different, but it's got 110k miles on it, and it's been a dedicated DE/race car since ~95k or so. Stock internals of course..

[lateapex911]

I chatted with Stretch (Briefly!) on the podium at the ARRC after his ITA loss to Ruck, and he was shaking his head, not pleased. He said: "Man if I thought the ITA race was going to be this hard I would have done the brakes and tuned the car....shit, I thought the SM race was going to be the tough one!"
(That was the year he WALKED the field in SM, only to later find issues with the head, that, IIRC, the builder took blame for.)

At the time, I think Bob was doing some WC races, and decided to do the ARRC ITA race at the last minute. Patullo was there, IIRC, and chated with him a bit about that.
Point being, he didn't always bring his A game.

[quadzjr]

3. I like the idea of building something different - as long as I think it has a shot at being competitive. Ok, so I'm a little weird that way.

4. I really, really like the idea of being competitive in a car that I built with my own hands. I can't imagine anything more satisfying.

Personal experience it can be very diffiult to produce something that will satisfy both 3 and 4. That has not been already expolored.. We all look at the numbers.

<-Built/developed MR2 to be different