Scca club racing non-specatator events

[dj10]

I am amazed to understand this still… It’s not like I’ve not know about SCCA Club Racing being a non-spectator event but as a businessman I am sick in my stomach to see all this potential earning for the regions, SCCA and events like the ProIT just get flushed down the toilet because of this antiquated way of thinking and doing business by the SCCA and regions. I don’t see any additional protection needed at any of these events that I’ve been at for possible spectators and I’d like to know what the actual cost of the insurance would be. As long as you don't let them into the hot pits, where's the danger? I doubt these events will bring in hoards of people but anything is better than nothing. I heard NASA draws all kinds of spectators to their events and from what I’ve heard NASA is growing while SCCA is floundering and only relying on the club members to support the club. What is the difference of the membership and competition license fees between NASA and SCCA? Maybe it’s time to bring the SCCA into the 21st century.

[Ron Earp]

I heard NASA draws all kinds of spectators to their events and from what I’ve heard NASA is growing

I don't know if NASA is growing in relation to the SCCA. But I can confirm that NASA does draw a good number of non-racers and interested parties to the paddock.

I attended a NASA race event at VIR back in July. There were large numbers of people in and around the paddock who were there to learn about racing, look at cars, and check out the scene. I think the the membership numbers that would come from this activity is somewhat minimal but at least it is there and non-club members can see what is going on. I can't see any downsides.

[Butch Kummer]

Since at least the mid-90's all Atlanta Region events have been spectator events so someone else will have to explain why theirs are not. There used to be an insurance premium difference between spectator and non-spectator, but that went away a couple of years ago.

Our contract with Road Atlanta requires that we allow spectators and they make those events part of the season-ticket package they offer. I suspect part of the reason (other than "we've always done it that way") is the tracks would need to bring in extra staff to handle opening up all the spectator areas. I know we went to an event at Mid-Ohio years ago and we were not allowed to cross the drive-over bridge into the infield even though we were participants.

[gran racing]

With some tracks, the fees would go to the track not SCCA.

But I can confirm that NASA does draw a good number of non-racers and interested parties to the paddock.

There's good and bad with this. This weekend at the Glen I left my truck keys and wallet in the center console, never giving it a tought. All of my tools were left out over night, the video camera attached to the roll bar, the racecar unlocked, tires left out....this was true for almost everyone at the track.

At the NASA events held at Summit Point, there's no way in hell I'm leaving ANYTHING out. There have been plenty of instances where stuff is stolen, and other issues are created.

Oh, ask Jake Gulick on his Road Atlanta spectator enjoyment. <sigh> While for the ARRC I agree it's nice to have as an open event, we can not forget that sometimes it might not be worth it. Like you said, not like many of our events will draw a lot of people anyways. Guess we'd need the rollover and female wet t-shirt contests to do that. lol

[dave parker]

Washington DC Region SCCA events at Summit Point are ALL spectator events and have been since I started going to races there in the early nineties.
This was at the request of the track owner who wanted spectators. I think it is still a good idea unless there is someone who can convince me that we should continue to be the Secret Car Club of America.

However, the SCCA will need to do much more than have spectators at road races to grow itself.

Dave Gran, you should stop being so trusting and lock your stuff up. There are thieves at SCCA regional and national events too.

cheers
dave parker

[Terry Hanushek]

Dan

I am amazed to understand this still… It’s not like I’ve not know about SCCA Club Racing being a non-spectator event but as a businessman I am sick in my stomach to see all this potential earning for the regions, SCCA and events like the ProIT just get flushed down the toilet because of this antiquated way of thinking and doing business by the SCCA and regions. I don’t see any additional protection needed at any of these events that I’ve been at for possible spectators and I’d like to know what the actual cost of the insurance would be. As long as you don't let them into the hot pits, where's the danger? I doubt these events will bring in hoards of people but anything is better than nothing.

The distinction between spectator and non-spectator events is somewhat blurred in SCCA. The liability rate differential between spectator and non-spectator events was removed in 2009. Even before 2009, a limited number of spectators (less than 1000?) could have been admitted under the non-spectator rate. The spectator rate was reserved for major events (think June Sprints, Runoffs) where there was a major promotion and x thousand spectators. Liability insurance is required when paying individuals are admitted to private property to protect against all manners of injury / lawsuits not just exposure to race cars.

I believe that most SCCA events are now conducted as spectator events from a sanction / insurance prospective. Sanction numbers 11-X-NNNN-S are spectator events. Even if they are not, there is no financial penalty from doing so.

Just because the sanction / insurance will permit spectators does not mean that ticket revenue is 'gravy' for SCCA or the region. There are definite costs associated with spectators - promotion / ticket distribution, security, etc. The potential revenue (variable) must exceed the costs (mostly fixed).

That said, each track situation is different. As Butch said, Road Atlanta requires spectator events. He didn't say who collects the revenues and who pays the expenses but I suspect that it is a track venture. At NJMP, our Club Racing events are on their spectator event schedule with the track managing the revenue / expense. Lately, we have been working with them to help with their promotion. We prefer spectator events from the exposure standpoint but do not have the resources to conduct our own spectator program. We feel that having a successful track-sponsored spectator event is a win-win because - if the track prospers, they can keep the facility open and will give us favorable access and privileges. We are anticipating expanded cooperation in 2012.

Terry

[gran racing]

Dave Gran, you should stop being so trusting and lock your stuff up.

My stuff isn't worth stealing. lol

[Kai Noeske]

My stuff isn't worth stealing. lol

But you should still remember to throw it into your truck before you drive home

[dj10]

It's is pretty damn embarrassing to tell my sponsors or friends thay can't come up to Walkins Glen and watch the races because they (who they?) don't want them there!!! I was at Atlanta when Jakes wallet got stolen...major bummer and if i would have caught them they wouldn't had to worry about jail. We can't let this hinder what is good for racing in general and that is to open up all tracks & club racing to spectators.

BTW Butch you can drive across the bridge @ Mid Ohio now. I beleive Ron Earp NASA is growing and SCCA is becoming a mediocare at best racing organization and they better get off their collective asses and do something about this! Lead or get out of the way!

[dave parker]

Note to Gran
On next trip to Summit Point, leave all belongings brought to Summit with Dave Parker, including race car.

What items I cannot use myself will be distributed to folks more needy than I.

That is all.

cheers
dave parker

[gran racing]

It's is pretty damn embarrassing to tell my sponsors or friends thay can't come up to Walkins Glen and watch the races because they (who they?) don't want them there!!!

That's all on you Dan. Did you speak with people at registration before or contact the RE? The women who did registration had both her e-mail and phone number. I've reached out to regions in these instances and had absolutely no problems. You could have also posted on this forum with a simple "looking for crew spots". Both Kai and myself had no one listed on our crew spots and would have been happy to help out.

In the end, you told your sponsors or friends they couldn't come.

Yes, I agree it would be nice if it were easier but at the same token......

[dj10]

That's all on you Dan. Did you speak with people at registration before or contact the RE? The women who did registration had both her e-mail and phone number. I've reached out to regions in these instances and had absolutely no problems. You could have also posted on this forum with a simple "looking for crew spots". Both Kai and myself had no one listed on our crew spots and would have been happy to help out.

In the end, you told your sponsors or friends they couldn't come.

Yes, I agree it would be nice if it were easier but at the same token......

What same token Dave? Your missing the point....I shouldn't have to do any of this, people should be allowed to spectate a sport that they love or just mabye they want to get out of their homes on a beautiful fall weekend, whatever... The tracks and the regions make out due to more sales including consessions. I see a 100 reasons for this to happen and 0 reasons for not.

BTW I will have them on my crew list and will pay for over crew if I have too.

[gran racing]

The "same token" is that you obviously didn't put enough effort in to make it happen. There were ways for you to get those individuals in to the event.

The good and bad of a member driven club is that WE need to step forward and make changes and improvements. If you feel strongly enough about something, step up. The club is made up of volunteers. I am not missing the point, and have been where you are but about something different. I decided it was time to do what I can to improve upon a situation I felt needed an improvement was needed with a section of our club. Guess now you see a way things can be improved and it's your time.

[Andy Bettencourt]

I see this 2 ways, if I was just a one-man-show, I wouldn't want 'just anyone' bombing around the pits with access to my area, my stuff, my trailer etc. It's not the culture we have, nor one I would want to have to lock everything everytime I turned my head...so NO, if you want spectators, they are on you - OR, they are to use the real spectator areas, which is to say no pit access.

And THAT, is just BORING in todays day and age. Nobody would do it at anything other than large, special events. Our NARRC Runoffs gets good spectator turnout but 90% of it must be generated by the CT Cub Scout camp out that weekend....and they have FULL access to the pits. Having a 'compound', 2 huge awenings and 4-5 employees there allows me to think about other things but if I was a guy with just a truck and a trailer and no second set of eyes, I might be a touch nervous.

If it's a sponsor issue, put them on your crew list.

[Bob Roth]

At 55, I worry about the future outlook of any group that has more members older than me! The advantage of more public involvement is that show up to the track to watch a race cause they think its cool are our best candidates for future club members, staff and workers etc.

[gpeluso]

Dan,
told you that this is a waste of time...... BTW what site can I go to see GRO PRO filming any SCCA races? If pro-it works.....run with other groups....bet they will welcome you guys with open arms...... Maybe next year you can run at Hyperfest at Summit....any SCCA events like that?

Greg

[mossaidis]

Not for nothing, yet T and I have thought up 10 different variations on an IT commercial. Yes, commercial promoting IT and event dates - yes we'll youtube it. Pick a rivalry for each variation, ITR, ITS, ITA, etc. All we need is slow motion video clips of us getting in our cars, passing, spins, crashes (well a few), checkered flags, blood, sweat and (regional-only) tears with segments timed in sequence to lease breaker music (think ride of the valkyres) in the background... le fin! Sorta NASCAR boiler plate stuff yet hopefully with an original twist. Well... guess we could do it, but we would rather promote all NARRC IT events not just NARRCoffs.

On a seperate note, someone a few years ago mentioned that they were or met a English chap at NARRCoffs. The englishman said "I can't more ppl aren't here! In the england, this place would be packed!". Yup... it's a shame.

[RacerBill]

Dan,
BTW what site can I go to see GRO PRO filming any SCCA races?

Greg

Lots of SCCA footage on the Race-Keeper YouTube channel.

[RacerBill]

I
If it's a sponsor issue, put them on your crew list.

I agree that we as drivers can do this. However, there are a couple of things that make this less than ideal.

1) registration is open only during a restricted timeframe. If your guests don't arrive when registration is open, what then? And then you have to tell everyone who might want to come and watch. Also, if your race is the last race of the day, your guests have to be there most of the day.

2) having to add specific names to the driver's packet leaves out people who just happen to drop by and want to see what's going on.

3) some regions are very open to the idea of listing 'anyone who asks', but other regions don't. Since the regions don't announce their policy, every driver who wants to take advantage of this method of adding guests has to verify this with the registrar at every event. And since it is unwritten, it is up to the discretion of the people at registration.

I hear the arguments about having to watch our equipment when there are spectators roaming around the paddock. Maybe we could each watch out for our fellow driver's stuff.

One of the attractions of other forms of racing is the accessibility of the drivers to the fans. I think that SCCA needs to become more accessible. Make it easier for people to learn about our sport.

Let's think outside of the box to make this easier.

[Z3_GoCar]

All our events are open paddock/spectator and yet we don't even draw the locals. When I stopped for Ice in Buttonwillow, I mentioned going to the race track and free admission. The lady behind the counter replyed, "All that stuff's online isn't it" meaning the locals don't even bother looking up what's happening 5 miles away. If that's the case how are we to draw someone from 150miles away in LA?

On a seperate note, someone a few years ago mentioned that they were or met a English chap at NARRCoffs. The englishman said "I can't more ppl aren't here! In the england, this place would be packed!". Yup... it's a shame.

The English are an ecentric lot, they are also count loging aircraft tail numbers as a sport.