IT/T Question

[manny]

Hello to all. My son ask me this and i wanted to ask it here. He's very interested in the IT/T series that is run in the Atlanta region and was wondering how would one go about starting that series here in the Central Florida Region? He's hoping to start it so maybe he can race against my IT/B car Thanks in advance

[bhudson]

Generally to get a new class started in your region all you have to do is submit the request to the region board of directors. It's a good idea to have a set of proposed rules ready at the time you present the idea.

That said, there's no guarantee that your region will agree to add the class. On the other hand, your region may have a catchall IT style class like ITE where an IT Truck could compete until you bring enough entries to justify it getting its own class.

[Butch Kummer]

Area 3 Director Robin Langlotz is also the Competition Director for CFR. He would be the first person to see regarding adding ITT as a regional-only class. Be prepared with statistics on how many people would potentially be interested in running the class, and also be ready to run as a "sub-class" in another group until you can prove the concept.

Despite being around for over ten years, ITT has not grown at all in Atlanta Region (averaging less than 2.0 entries per race). We would have killed the class long ago if the major proponents of the class were not also so active in administration of our club.

[Knestis]

Dude - seriously. Have him buy an ITB CAR.

If the reason is that "he already has the truck," please help him be successful by getting him to understand that the few hundred dollars of value he has in the vehicle aren't piddle compared to the cost of getting it ready and out there.

K

EDIT - I originally typed "build an ITB CAR." If he opens a savings account and puts money into it until he can afford the $4000 it would take to buy something pretty much ready to go, he's set. If he can't muster that, then he can't afford to go racing.

[callard]

^ Amen

[Joeyshortfinger]

You know this post got me to finally join the forums because all I really did was read alot,but on that note all I have to say is,I love the idea.Just because the kid wants to be different and not build what everyone else is(like GTI's or miata's)and take the easy way out dosnt give anyone the right to down the idea.Also isnt the IT groups more of a grassroots class if you ask me,so when has this became a MONEY sport?I love this sport been doing it for many years but really guys I would love some new Competition on the track even if its from a truck I dont care this is a sport that I me and alot of others do for fun in no matter what you run.

You tell your son manny to build it,even if he is the only one running a truck,heck even I would love to see this little truck go around the track

[manny]

Thank you all for your pos and neg answers to my question. We will end up building one, maybe two trucks because we are different and i do love the SCCA because of all of the different cars that are out there. I have read the Atlanta specs for the class and it would be very easy and cheap to put together a FUN truck to race. Just being part of the SCCA and being able to enjoy all of the tracks that it has to offer is FANTASTIC, and meeting all of the guys and girls and just BSing is all part of it. Thank you again

[JLawton]

Kirk wasn't putting down the idea of building, just giving advice from years of experience. The idea of building is cool, but from a finances perspective it doesn't make sense.

We've done the math before, but:

Good cage: $1200
IT shocks: $1000 - $3000
Sway bars (probably no off the shelf option for a truck) $1,000
Seat: $200
Harness: $150
Kill switch: $50
Window net: $50
Exhuast: (again, custom) $400???
Transponder (used) $300
Limited slip

That's not including any ECU tuning (another $500+??) or engine work............ or all the old parts that need replacing from a street car........like........ EVERYTHING! Radiator, hoses, water pump, plugs, wires, injectors, fluids, intake

I know I'm forgetting important stuff.......

Then, double that number because it ALWAYS takes more than you plan for.
Then there's the build........... Think it will take you 3 months? probably at least a 9 months, maybe more if you're not dedicating all your time to it.

This is all off the top of my head. I think ITT is a cool class, but if you want to get out there soon and on the cheap, buy a built car.

Either way, it's great to be able to do a project like this with your son. You guys will have a blast!

[Knestis]

Kirk wasn't putting down the idea of building, just giving advice from years of experience. ...

...and moreover, from a quarter century of watching people start racing in ways that dramatically increase the chance that they will come up short, waste a lot of money, never get out on the track, and quit.

We don't want your son to be member number 450,000 or whatever we're up to now, and be one of the large percentage who blow out. We want him to have a good time, come to the track, hang out with friends, race, and keep coming back.

You can have MORE fun actually racing for less money and less time away from the rest of the family, if he makes a different decision.

And the bad news, JSF, is that racing became a money sport the instant two guys decided to see who could go faster on their horses. I MIGHT BE WRONG but 9 of 10 times I see someone taking this tack - "build it as they go," "mod their street car," or whatever - it's because they just haven't set aside enough $$ to actually make it happen.

Nobody gains anything by having an old fart like me blow smoke up their skirt, so I choose "curmudgeon" ...

K

[callard]

I've built my last 7 race cars and bought 1. Guess which was the least expensive and got me on the track the quickest. What Jeff said is fact (but too low in cost and timing). But I LIKE building cars as much as racing them so I've mostly gone the expensive slow route. If you want to race now, buy or rent something. I'm definitely not putting down the concept of building your own racer, just seconding what Kirk said.
Chuck

[Butch Kummer]

And unless you just WANT to be different, buy/build something that other people are racing. It helps when you have problems at the track, it gives you a better comparison of how you're doing, and it has better resale value when you're ready to move on to something else.

There's a reason why ITT has not expanded beyond Atlanta Region. Sure people think they're cute, but nobody else is racing them despite past recruiting efforts by Fletcher and Paul Brewer. It may have changed since Hyler Craft is gone, but Buccaneer Region refused to let the trucks on the track - said they weren't "real" race cars. Not quite the same order of magnitude, but CFR refused to allow former Craftsmen Trucks to run their races even in SPO - again they weren't "sports cars".

I probably fall into the curmudgeon category as well, though, so as with everything:

YMMV...

[Knestis]

...It may have changed since Hyler Craft is gone, but Buccaneer Region refused to let the trucks on the track - said they weren't "real" race cars. Not quite the same order of magnitude, but CFR refused to allow former Craftsmen Trucks to run their races even in SPO - again they weren't "sports cars".

I'm not a fan of the trucks but that's just rude.

K

[JeffYoung]

Agreed.

Ron tried to take his Lightning to a BMW HPDE event at VIR one time. They said, uh, that doesn't "fit our image." And sent him home.

Rude.

I'm not a fan of the trucks but that's just rude.

K

[Matt93SE]

My big worry is that you're going to spend thousands of bucks only to be denied access to the track when you get there and the chief of tech says "You can't race a truck, they'll roll over!"

I like people building "quirky offbeat stuff", but I'd hate to see someone make the wrong decision and not be able to enjoy what you've built. I would suggest sticking with a more mainstream platform.

And then there's the money thing.. Racing ain't cheap, and neither is building a car.

If you build the cage yourself, you're looking at $1000 or so. If you pay a shop to do it, double that. Mine was $3500 by the time I was done, and it's a pretty basic cage.

Then you have to get the truck to and from the track. it's no longer street legal. If it is, you shouldn't be driving it on the street with a roll cage and no helmet. so add a few more thousand for a second truck and a trailer. don't forget to insure, fuel, store, and maintain them.

throw in entry fees and everything else, and "a weekend at the track with my cheap race car" turns into $1000+ after entry fees, food, lodging, gas, and maintenance on the hauler.

I'm really not trying to be a downer- I promise. just trying to be realistic.
I built my own car (all except the cage) from a daily driver, and it's cost me about 3x what I could buy the same thing for. And then it costs my another small fortune to race it!

I did it because I wanted to build a car from scratch and I applaud anyone who wants to- just be realistic about what you're doing and realize it's not goign to be nearly as easy or cheap as you think you can do it. then throw in the curmudgeons at the track who don't want to see a truck out there racing against his brothers 1960s british car with a 0.025L engine that revs to 20,000rpm and then catches fire.

[lateapex911]

Alternate viewpoint:
If nobody is racing what you're building, then you can build pretty cheap...and win. Of course, you're beating nobody, so you also come in last. LOL.

But, in reality....In today's economy, logbooked racecars are cheeeeep.
If actual racing is the goal, and geee, since we're talking about a racing club, I'd assume it is, then getting an unusual but already built ITB car is the way to go. Good size fields wherever you go so you will usually have somebody meaningful to race against, and trust me, even a built car is a project a father and son can share.

Car racing is an emotional sport, but the winners and the successful guys find a way to balance the emotion and the logic.

As one progresses through the racing life, the car of choice goes from a loved object, to the tool that can do the job.

(I'll admit I'm biased. To me, those trucks look like not much fun to race, and, there are basically two in the whole country, so, there's no way I'd build one, as I want to race against, and hopefully beat, a field of cars. That's me though. )

[manny]

Thank you all for your input, thats why i love the SCCA. I do have a letter in to Robin and i will just have to wait and see what she says.

[Butch Kummer]

Thank you all for your input, thats why i love the SCCA. I do have a letter in to Robin and i will just have to wait and see what she says.

Robin Langlotz is many things, but female is definitely not on the list.

[manny]

sorry bout that

[manny]

well just wanted to give you all an update on the IT/T question, its a NO . they said that there is no interest in that class

[manny]

BUT they also said that if there was at least 2 trucks that showed up to race then they would add the class