IT National Racing

[fivedimeracer]

Since I first began racing an ITC Ford Fiesta back in 1996, I was of the opinion that IT should be national or rather there should be no differentiation between National and Regional races in SCCA. My desire to qualify and race at the Valvoline Runoffs lead us to converting what was one of the fastest ITC cars in the NE into a backmarker and one of the first tin tops in FP in 1998.
At the time National meant big money to be competitive (still does and even on the regional level to be up front is not cheap) and many regional racers warned me that the National guys weren't nice and wouldn't talk to me. Truth be told, they were nice and I met some of my best friends to this day, however, what was different was that my car had been so modified it had now become unpredictable, unreliable and un-winning...if there was a way to have run on a "National" level with my little Fiesta without spending boatloads....

I'm sure it has been discussed here before at length well prior to my return now to IT, but I'm no longer 22 and looking at running the Runoffs or bust, but rather looking at SCAA holistically and what would be the best model to move both the club and grassroots roadracing forward?

I feel IT racing is the single best way to promote Grassroots RoadRacing and it does not need to be the "steppingstone" that in my opinion it is often thought of. I raced in fields of 17 ITC cars at Lime Rock and The Glen in the 90's that frankly made me think harder and drive better than I ever did at the 5 Runoffs I ran. The driving at the regional level is on par with national, the car counts at NE regionals are on par or better than many NE nationals(except maybe the Glen National). Some areas of the country are already running combined events due to lower overall numbers which I sure is also a cost effective measure.

IT at Runoffs would increase car counts not only at the Runoffs, but on the divisional level as well. However, the key would be not just making IT national, thereby, making those interested in the Runoffs to just run the 7-8 Nationals...but rather making all races SCCA National Races that qualify towards Runoffs..

Thoughts ?

Thanks
Joe Z

[lateapex911]

In short, you're preaching to the choir....at least in my opinion. The NAtional/Regional debate has raged on here several times. It used to be that a majority of IT guys were against it, but thats waned.

In general, I think the National/Regional distinction has run it's course and was suited for a different time. now, I think we just need races.

But, to do so requires dropping certain requirements of race length etc. Can you imagine a National at Lime Rock for ALL the myriad of classes?

(yes, we have TOO mANY classes, but thats another, though integral discussion)

It would be difficult to fit all the classes with the required race length at a short track like LRP with it's short days.

And National guys, in general, would be opposed, as they will lose track time, and various other intrinsic aspects.

The CRb has opposed the IT going national idea (Some have supported it) due to numerous reasons, but a main one mentioned has been the difficulty in teching the 300 plus cars in the ITCS at a Runoffs.

Some say the whole Super Touring concept was an outgrowth of the frustration in certain parts of the club for not taking IT national.

you'll get lots of opinions on this, but at this point, my gut tells me IT won't go National unless "National" racing as we know it evaporates...

[Knestis]

Shorter version: The people who most influence decisions bearing on the issue have the most to lose - personally - from IT going National. It won't ever happen.

K

[fivedimeracer]

Jake,
Thanks for your reply..I really appreciate it, and I realize that you are playing devils advocate as you said you are somewhat in agreement. The points are the same ones that I remember discussing in 2003 at the RUnoffs when the combination of GT4 and 5 was "suggested" to us as we felt we had no choice...this was the advent of the "SIR". At the time it was all about how much track time SRF could get and FV at the RUnoffs and they needed there own class, and there was this new SCCA Formula car that needed time...oh and dont forget this new "Miata" class that regional guys were running and wanted to be a part of Nationals...etc. etc. This to a certain extent caused a fear mentality and people ran races just to play the game and the systematic "numbers" so their class could maintain its national status. This caused great classes like GP (which was annually one of the best Runoffs races)...to be lost, even though it only had 1 bad year compared to some classses that always did.

Here's the thing...I went to the Glen last week and was a quite surprised...barely any AS, half the SRF from back in the day, waaaay fewer Showroom Stock cars, less FV, barely any Atlantics or Continentals(there used to be 20 FC 's !!) E Prod was a booming class from 2000-2006, and one of my favorite classes even though I wasn't in it. However, at this 2011 Glen National there were not even a quarter as many. National numbers and specifically the Runoffs are bolstered by Spec Miatas, however, it may be a case of subtraction by addition ? Possibly, when folks realized that good competitive racing could be had on a somewhat cost effective budget, folks turned to SM...rather than the other classes, and when new folks came they entered there or the traditional entry classes like IT.

Many of the track time questions folks have/are raising..will be answered when the 2.5 rule eliminates these classes, as there are currently quite a few classes under the limit. Clinging to .."I want my own race"..just isn't reality...as there won't be races... Just look at the event results..regional and national in Sportscar...1-3 cars/no entrants in many cases.

Most of these questions/concerns that are raised are no longer the concerns they were when times were great and SCCA could decide what classes got to be on TV(there was a time when all weren't on), and the tv coverage was a reason given for certain decisions around the Runoffs.

Thanks,
JZ

[fivedimeracer]

K,
Understood, and I appreciate your honesty. I have felt this way too, when my GTL was going to get the axe and my huge investment was going to be lost...even though other classes may have not been meeting minimum reqs. , but was given National status based on a "probationary" period..... I feel that if the IT community comes together and the vast majority states that they feel that IT should be national it can be....just like SM.

Many National competitors did not want SM to be national, even though it had earned the right as it proved the numbers it could produce at the regional level.(numbers which IT had always produced, but philosophy prohibited National status ) However, because it was seen that SM was a savior, from a Runoffs car count perspective, folks accepted it...

We are always looking for a "new" class, or tweaking an existing car by putting a different motorcycle engine in it, but all this does is further splinter the classes and separate those in a given class who have invested and often these classes require new unrealistic cars that range from 20-65k...As a club we often focus being "catch all" and what's "hot"..remember when we got into promoting drifting..., when we should be focusing on what we are good at, we have fantastic workers and great grassroots roadracing. Lets have Races....the rest will take care of itself.

The "new" class...is a very old one, and it has been sitting there all along.

JZ

[lateapex911]

K,
Understood, and I appreciate your honesty.

yea, Kirks right, LOL. I was trying....for once in my life....to be a 'responsible poster", LOL. And not comment on things that are conclusions based on soft issues that are obvious to some. But yea, turf protectionism is very very prevalent. We have a great BoD guy here in the NE, Dick Patullo, and I'll be interested to hear his take, should he be able to post.

Many National competitors did not want SM to be national, even though it had earned the right as it proved the numbers it could produce at the regional level.(numbers which IT had always produced, but philosophy prohibited National status ) However, because it was seen that SM was a savior, from a Runoffs car count perspective, folks accepted it...

Yup, but also remember that SM is ONE class, whereas IT is a category of FIVE classes.
Further, just a year or two ago, this came up and the PTB, IIRC, have shut the door on changing the philosophy to allow IT to qualify for National inclusion.


I think you'll continue to see a decline in classes that require guys to fab and tinker and build. Sure, there are guys who love to do that, but, I think social norms (Dad MUST be at every soccer game) have changed significantly and classes like SM are the best option for many. Look around the paddock. 20 years ago, you'd see open trailers and some top dog rigs...duallys with enclosed trailers. Now, Toter rigs and Diesel pusher motorhomes towing 35 foot enclosed trailers are commonplace. Motorhomes that cost more than many houses. People want to crash in the AC motorhome, with the pop out section and the leather couch watching satellite programming on the 50" flatscreen between races, NOT tinker with the Stromberg carbs and get all stinky with gas on their hands.

Arrive and drives are much more popular, again because Dad can't just ignore the fatherhood responsibilities anymore. So you'll see more and more consolidation of classes that are easy to care for and reasonable to race, and more money spent on comfort.

That means more erodinging of many of the old school classes, and more consolidation into SM, SSM, etc. OR Boxster Cup. OR BMW E30 Cup (or whatever it is.) Or Ferrari Cup. Or the latest cool thing NASA has going for a 'Cup"...
SCCA once was the center of the universe, but the universe is shifting.

I told the CRB, when I was on the ITAC, and the whole question was being discussed, that I thought they should use IT to make a better Runoffs, and better National program, if they insisted on keeping the National/Regional distinction. Some feel it would destroy IT, but I think it would help the club, in the big picture.

[fivedimeracer]

Jake,
I too have tried to explain this to folks for quite some time. The majority of guys would rather hit the easy button(that is not a slight) than work on a car every night..its just reality. I did it..but when my son began playing soccer 4 days a week and I was coaching.......??
In previous discussions many would state that my priorities shouldn't change others classes, but as proven by SM....Im not alone.
IT provides a fair amount of prep and fab that those without engineering degrees can do quite well.
My father ran the IMSA bfg radial challenge in a pinto in the 70's and when we look back...it was an IT car! ...and was a pro series...with 50 car fields.

jake,so funny and true, that you brought up the open trailers...2006 Speed Runoffs GTL coverage.

[Matt93SE]

IT isn't as popular here as it is up north, but the only difference in run groups between our National and Regional races is the absense of IT incorporated into the Prod/ST/GT/T classes. ITR, ITE, ITS all run with GT, STO, and T; while ITA/B/C run with Prod, GTL, and STU.
I'd say we might have a max of 10 IT entries at an event though so it's not much different for car counts.
Plus I'm friends with most of the IT guys and like racing with them so I'm all for IT going national.
Hell the ones in the area that want to drive Nats just enter in STU and come out anyway. it's the same guys on track with different letters on the side.

[benspeed]

+1 ^ - I totally agree Jake.