Intake and TBs - Aug Fastrack

[Greg Amy]

The intake manifold needed to do this would come from a JDM engine and chassis that is not allowed. Should we not just allow the use of non USDM intake manifolds?

We tried the JDM route and it was firmly rejected by the CRB.

There's no reason why the 240SX cannot install a US-spec SR20DE*. But the CRB will not approve either the JDM SR20DET or the SR20VE.

If we dont find a way to "un-Honda domination" the STL rules, the class WILL fail.

Uuum, OK. How about we get one other car built besides a single Honda Integra before we start talking "Honda Domination"? Or are you and Jake in cahoots...?

Nice early Miata denial effort, though. - GA

* We were making ~180 crank ponies with the ITA-spec SR20DE. Give me 20% more cam (more than the vaunted SR20VE) and another point of compression on that engine, put that lump in a decent S13/14 chassis, and just step back and watch me in STL.

[Matt93SE]

We tried the JDM route and it was firmly rejected by the CRB.

There's no reason why the 240SX cannot install a US-spec SR20DE*. But the CRB will not approve either the JDM SR20DET or the SR20VE.

So please explain how you can install a US-spec SR20DE in RWD configuration using a US-spec intake manifold?
Since the rule states I can use the intake mani for the chassis, does that mean I can use the JDM manifold since it's the same chassis? That's the only way I see to fit an SR into an S-chassis and make it anywhere near reasonably affordable.

[Greg Amy]

So please explain how you can install a US-spec SR20DE in RWD configuration using a US-spec intake manifold?

I don't know that you can, I've never tried it. Have you? What's the issue? Is there any clever engineering available within the rules to get around whatever the problem is?

Since the rule states I can use the intake mani for the chassis, does that mean I can use the JDM manifold since it's the same chassis?

Let me be perfectly clear: as of right now JDM COMPONENTS ARE NOT APPROVED FOR SUPER TOURING. The CRB has clearly spoken to that point. I simply can't make it any clearer than that.

I'm sorry that you don't like what Nissan decided to import into this country. I don't like it either, I think they should have imported a lot of different things into this country and would have sold a lot more cars and would be enjoying a helluva lot better reputation for sportiness here, but that's what Nissan chose to do. There's absolutely nothing we can do about that.

If you don't like this position on JDM engines, then petition your Board of Directors rep to get the CRB to change their minds. Short of that, I just don't see it happening any time soon... - GA

[Matt93SE]

Woah now, Greg.. put your flamethrower down. I'm VERY aware of the JDM issue as it's the primary reason I haven't built a new engine yet and am running at the back of the pack.

I was asking for a clarification on what is actually allowed, since that's exactly how some other people are going to read it when you say you can use any intake manifold from that chassis. The same chassis code was sold all over the world, and that's how I read it. That's why I'm posting and asking questions.

In the case of the 240SX, the FWD SR20DE intake manifold points backwards in relation to the required mounting on an RWD car. There's not enough room (about 2") between the firewall and the back of the engine to plumb an intake through there, especially after you "re-engineer" the ignition system to remove the distributor. All of the important bits are mounted over the tranny in the FWD version, and that's unpossible if you conver to RWD for obvious reasons.

The RWD version of the engine has the dizzy coming out of the side of the head and the intake flows from the other direction, which solves all of those problems.

240SX:
http://www.tamparacing.com/forums/at...s-pict0643.jpg

200SX/Sentra/whatever:
http://en.nissan-club.eu/graphics/ow...3_p3161172.jpg

There was, however, an SR20DE installed in the S13 and S14 chassis (in Japan of course) that could provide a bolt-on intake manifold solution, but you'd still have to re-do the entire ignition system to make it work.

See where I'm going with that? It's easy to come to the conclusion that's what this rule was intended for if you want to lean that way. The issue is stretching the chassis code designations past our shores which is easy to do if you look at it in this context.

Edit.. pics changed to links since they're huge and some clarifications.

[Greg Amy]

I was asking for a clarification on what is actually allowed, since that's exactly how some other people are going to read it when you say you can use any intake manifold from that chassis. The same chassis code was sold all over the world, and that's how I read it.

You should/can ask for a formal clarification (see my sig), but I suggest, given the response from the CRB to date, if you try to argue that you can use the engines from the JDM cars because the same exact chassis were available in the US and Japan, that the CRB's response would be predictable.

IMO, forget that the rest of the world exists. What matters is what equipment your local Nissan dealer was able to sell you.

...the FWD SR20DE intake manifold points backwards in relation to the required mounting on an RWD car.

Then we got farked by Nissan, and unfortunately there's currently no legitimate way around it.

Note that the new philosophy states:

"Some amount of latitude will be considered to facilitate engine installations, however if extensive modifications are required it is recommended to seek clarification from the Club Racing Board."

...and 9.1.4.G.1 states:

"If an engine from a front wheel drive vehicle is installed in a rear wheel drive vehicle, alternate OEM intake manifolds may be considered."

...but if you make a request you better do your homework, have all your ducks in a row, and be very specific with factory part numbers and detailed supporting reasons and specifications. I can't say it'll be approved, but it will certainly be considered, and I can assure you that if you put anything with the letters "JDM" in there it will be summarily rejected.

There was, however, an SR20DE installed in the S13 and S14 chassis (in Japan of course) that could provide a bolt-on intake manifold solution, but you'd still have to re-do the entire ignition system to make it work.

Ignition will be "free" in 2012.

[Matt93SE]

Nevermind...
When you actually cut and paste the addition onto the end of the existing wording, it makes much more sense.
With that as a separate line item, it's easy to misconstrue to something is allowed that's not.

[Mrsideways]

In the Honda world (haven't looked at much else) I see this as a big equalizer as this makes a K24 into the current body civic (when I say current I mean current SSB cars) more doable as they can run the good manifold but keeps the good manifold OFF the older lighter body civic hatches and makes them run the "not good" manifold when running the K24 swap. This also makes the car I see this hurting is the TSX.
This makes life easier on the S2000 swap with the K24 but I've gotta figure out an adapter plate situation as it's not exactly a bolt up.
Just got a txt from one SSB car that he'll probably do the swap now. So you got one more car in the class. I'm concerned about STU's car count once all the SM's go play in STL.