The demise of ITR at WDC

[Cobrar05]

ok, 'splain somethin' to me? itr cars lapping the field is bad so the itr cars get moved to big bore so they get lapped twice or more by the gt1 and sto cars?

running my mustangs in the big bore group i regularly get lapped at least once by the fast cars. they are 7 or 8 seconds a lap faster than i am at road atlanta. what am i missing?

[dave parker]

ok, 'splain somethin' to me? itr cars lapping the field is bad so the itr cars get moved to big bore so they get lapped twice or more by the gt1 and sto cars?

running my mustangs in the big bore group i regularly get lapped at least once by the fast cars. they are 7 or 8 seconds a lap faster than i am at road atlanta. what am i missing?

Rob
Nothing.

cheers
dave parker

[1stgen]

I have NO problem with the sanctioning body being profit or not. I want to be treated decently by whomever and SCCA is slipping relative to the new guys. P.S. Other than SCCA, I can't think of any other sanctioning body I have worked in that doesn't try to make a profit. Wait "Southern California Timing association". They run the Bonneville salt flats "Speedweeks". And they are very difficult to work with!!!!! Hmmm club again.
I'm sorry but I do take some offense at your e36 chassis comments. My two customers with ITR cars hold or have held 5 lap records over the last two years. They still cannot just "drive around" a V8 Mustang car that is being a jerk in the corners and blocking ya up and then using there 100 plus hp advantage on corner exit. A 200 hp ITR e36 is still somewhat of a momentum car at 2800 lbs. ITR/ITS e36 differences are really like 10 hp, rim diameter and a little weight. They belong together is all I'm saying.

I'm only gonna say one thing. If your making less than 230 wheel with that m3 motor than you have some issues. Those motors with cams and exhaust easily make 230+ hp....I have driven many of these cars in JP bmwcca trim. Fast, fast fast

[StephenB]

I'm only gonna say one thing. If your making less than 230 wheel with that m3 motor than you have some issues. Those motors with cams and exhaust easily make 230+ hp....I have driven many of these cars in JP bmwcca trim. Fast, fast fast

How about without the cams?

Stephen

[Z3_GoCar]

How about without the cams?

Stephen

Stock M3 cams fit in all the ITR BMW's and easily add 15-20hp at the wheel and are visually indistingushable from stock. Bolt on an OBDI manifold and you get another easy 15-20hp, that's how a car that stock makes 160hp at the wheel gets to 205-215hp at the wheel. That's also why BMW club gave up trying to police cams, who brings a spintron and the proper equiptment to pull cams to the track? If you break my cams pulling them without the proper tools in impound are you going to buy me new ones? I have yet to see our grid people pull a valve cover, they're overworked just taking weights.

[JoshS]

Stock M3 cams fit in all the ITR BMW's and easily add 15-20hp at the wheel and are visually indistingushable from stock.

...

I have yet to see our grid people pull a valve cover, they're overworked just taking weights.

Not all the ITR BMWs James, only the E36 engines.

And, of course, just because they don't check doesn't mean it's not cheating.

[Z3_GoCar]

Not all the ITR BMWs James, only the E36 engines.

And, of course, just because they don't check doesn't mean it's not cheating.

Agreed on the cheating part... You have to get to know your competition, and just how ethical they as a person are.

I'm just pointing out that it's so easy to do this kind of thing... The e46 based motors have the 330ZHP cams. These motors share so many parts, it's really hard to tell visually.

[gt40jim]

I'm only gonna say one thing. If your making less than 230 wheel with that m3 motor than you have some issues. Those motors with cams and exhaust easily make 230+ hp....I have driven many of these cars in JP bmwcca trim. Fast, fast fast

Number one, ITR does not allow M3 parts. Number two My cars run legal Lots of dyno time on our cars and never made NEAR 230 horse. We are not JP trim. You have issues, insinuating that I cheat because I complain about being stuck in big bore. Geeez, Some peoples kids.... And I'm happy to hear that you're only gonna say one thing AND you have said it... Jim Locke 35 year member and PROUD to prepare legal and winning cars. (Good drivers too)

[gt40jim]

Stock M3 cams fit in all the ITR BMW's and easily add 15-20hp at the wheel and are visually indistingushable from stock. Bolt on an OBDI manifold and you get another easy 15-20hp, that's how a car that stock makes 160hp at the wheel gets to 205-215hp at the wheel. That's also why BMW club gave up trying to police cams, who brings a spintron and the proper equiptment to pull cams to the track? If you break my cams pulling them without the proper tools in impound are you going to buy me new ones? I have yet to see our grid people pull a valve cover, they're overworked just taking weights.

Protest, pull the cam cover, rotate the motor with a dial indicator longstem on the bucket and you will catch an M3 cam over a std cam. At the ARRC we have to pull the cams and head. I got no problem with that. Bring your tools to safely pull your motor apart. It's a cost of racing. All ya need to properly check ANY cam is a degree wheel, vee blocks, a dial indicator and the stock specs or a sample stock cam. BMWs are no the only cars that have visually indistingushable cams from performance versions. M or a regrind. Universal problem. BTW I like your Z3! Nice car! Jim

[jjjanos]

Dave, I love ya, and I know you're speaking for the folks who run things, and you're just the messenger, but...

When the Washington PTB put ITR into big bore, it was like shooting all the ITR drivers. They either quit racing, took their car elsewhere, or moved to another class. (For the most part)

The ITR drivers were collateral damage. ITS were put into Big Bore for valid reasons when DC consolidated run groups to allow for Saturday racing and ITR was swept up.

ITS was moved mid season because the pairing with Big Bore wasn't working for the very reasons that IT didn't want the class. The powers that be decided that potentially writing off ITB car was better than potentially writing off a GT car. ITR should have been moved at the time, but wasn't. The classes that were impacted by the change certainly weren't going to stand up and ask for it and I don't know if ITR asked for it, but chances are the DR wasn't even there.

As for the complaints regarding speed differentials -- would you like a Brie or a Swiss? The Gap between ITR and ITC is very similar to the gap between GT1 and ITR.