The demise of ITR at WDC

[Andy Bettencourt]

It seems pretty obvious that the ITR guys hate the groupinfg and are speaking with their wallets in WDC.

If you put them into the ITS group, do you lose any of those guys?

Knock knock, are the regional reps listening?

[yannisalex2000]

Over the years I got to know and become friends with some great people from the WDC region, everyone helped everyone else and we had some great times at dinners at different places. I hope they come up with something acceptable for ITR car because I miss people and my friends.

Amen brother Dan I could not have said it better myself.Personally I dont want to be with BB anymore not because of safety or because I finish 20th out of 25 or even because I had to replace my windshield three times the past 2 seasons.Its because I am not having fun.By lap three the faster cars are gone and the few AS slower than me are way behind.DRIVING around SP for 12 out of 16 laps with NO CARS in sight is not my idea of racing.Hell even the workers look bored.

John A.

[jumbojimbo]

Amen brother Dan I could not have said it better myself.Personally I dont want to be with BB anymore not because of safety or because I finish 20th out of 25 or even because I had to replace my windshield three times the past 2 seasons.Its because I am not having fun.By lap three the faster cars are gone and the few AS slower than me are way behind.DRIVING around SP for 12 out of 16 laps with NO CARS in sight is not my idea of racing.Hell even the workers look bored.

John A.

So your class is running nicely seperated behind the faster class and in front of the slower class and that's a problem? I thought that was the ultimate good situation. What you are missing is racing with other class cars and buggering up their race?

I just don't see how ITR is going to win this arguement. Even if they get what they want they are going to bring a tiny number of cars. And they are going to cause pain for much larger classes. ITA is not an unlimited natural resource that shows up no matter what.

[Gregg]

It seems pretty obvious that the ITR guys hate the groupinfg and are speaking with their wallets in WDC.

If you put them into the ITS group, do you lose any of those guys?

Knock knock, are the regional reps listening?

Andy-

Yes we are and we have been since the first ITR cars took the track for the 2007 season. But as I think has been noted here previously, we must also listen and balance the wishes of the other 197+ drivers who race at a regular MARRS weekend. Nobody wants our friends to stay home but, honestly, sometimes you can't please everyone.

BTW-here are the results of the MARRS Big Bore group this past Sunday. Twelve starters / 11 finishers on a 2mi course. And the O.P. (who did not run this weekend) talks about his last event (MARRS4) where there were also 12 starters and 11 finishers. Of course we see a larger number of cars in that group for the 1st event of the year and the Labor Day Double, but as the economy tanked and the drivers with some of the most expensive cars to maintain started staying home, Big Bore became perhaps a better home for ITR than some give it credit for.

Although the ITR drivers think it would be better to weed their way through 30+ non-ITR cars during a race, we must also look at those other drivers and whether they will speak with their wallets.

[dave parker]

Andy
I am listening. But I am only listening to the ITR drivers that have raced in the MARRS ITR races.

I think that the main person to be involved in this discussion is the DC Region ITR drivers representative Marshall Lytle. He is a member of this forum. Perhaps we should have his opinion on this.

cheers
dave parker
DC Region Small Bore Group Rep.

[erlrich]

Although the ITR drivers think it would be better to weed their way through 30+ non-ITR cars during a race, we must also look at those other drivers and whether they will speak with their wallets.

Gregg - not picking on you (besides, I know you have very thick skin), because obviously the majority of the CRC had to vote on this; but why would there be any difference between ITR running in the group with ITA, versus T3 running with ITA (which they do now)? They run almost exactly the same lap times, and I know Don (T3) routinely lapped up to the top 6-8 ITA cars last year when he ran.

I mean, heck, we give SRF their own race group when they're fielding 10-12 cars, we give open wheel two separate groups for what, maybe 20 cars in total? I bet the 170+ drivers who don't race in those classes wouldn't mind seeing open wheel combined into one group, and SRF put back in with small bore. As you said, we can't make everyone happy - but when we do things that we know will keep drivers away maybe we should re-think those things. I would be really, really curious to see a poll of the current MARRS ITA drivers, asking how many would stop racing (or change groups) if they had ITR in the group.

[callard]

I'm thinking that this small group of racers wants to be the biggest fish in another pond and doesn't mind mucking up larger groups of lower well-matched classes in the process. They can't win overall in BB so they want to go somewhere else where they can.

[Gregg]

Good question, Earl.

Prior to the 2009 season when ITR was placed in Big Bore, T3 ran with ITB/ITC/SRX7/SS. Of course, there had been no T3 cars running in the MARRS series up to that point (maybe they didn't like the grouping ). When the groupings were realigned, T3 was moved to the new ITA/SRX7 group and we had one regular driver. At times a second driver, a rookie, raced but placed himself at the rear of the grid in order to watch and learn.

That regular T3 driver usually finished a few car lengths ahead of the ITA winner in both 2009 and 2010, running what should be two seconds or more off the pace of a front-running ITR car.

[yannisalex2000]

So your class is running nicely seperated behind the faster class and in front of the slower class and that's a problem? I thought that was the ultimate good situation. What you are missing is racing with other class cars and buggering up their race?

I just don't see how ITR is going to win this arguement. Even if they get what they want they are going to bring a tiny number of cars. And they are going to cause pain for much larger classes. ITA is not an unlimited natural resource that shows up no matter what.

Jim is not about winning or losing an argument.WDCR is the only region that I know off that 1)runs ITR with BB and 2)splits ITR from ITS.Do you suggest that I should be happy with my 10-12 wins over the last 2 seasons because I was the ONLY ITR DRIVER THAT SHOWED UP?I dont think so.Following and watching better drivers, been pushed from behind and going through traffic is the best way for all of us to grow and develop as race car drivers.
Regards
John A.

[yannisalex2000]

I'm thinking that this small group of racers wants to be the biggest fish in another pond and doesn't mind mucking up larger groups of lower well-matched classes in the process. They can't win overall in BB so they want to go somewhere else where they can.

ITR IS the biggest fish in the IT pond and should be treated that way.

[callard]

ITR IS the biggest fish in the IT pond and should be treated that way.

So get 12 of your bretheren together and perhaps the Region will merge you with IT-S and you'll get what you so rightly deserve.

[benspeed]

I agree John - rolling around the track by yourself is a driver ed day, not a race. It's not always about where you finish but the excitement of passing and being passed and working on race craft. Running door to door with other cars in all classes is where it's at, at least, that's what I like and it's missing at SP for ITR. Lot's of the tracks in the NE have S and R battling to the finish and I don't know anybody complaining about messing up class specific races.

But I don't think this will be a problem because ITR will skip SP and go to NJMP.

I do respect that the guys getting lapped lose some track time. When I ran GT1 at LimeRock the friggin race lasted 15 minutes because we ran in the low 50's for a 15 or 18 lap race. Anybody grouped with GT1 was pretty unhappy - nobody wants a shorter race.

[yannisalex2000]

So get 12 of your bretheren together and perhaps the Region will merge you with IT-S and you'll get what you so rightly deserve.

ITR/ITS... GET IT?Same drivers rep same paddock area, cars eligible to race either.I had decided not to bring my ITR car back to SP but I think I am going to change my mind and do exactly what you suggested.

[erlrich]

So get 12 of your bretheren together and perhaps the Region will merge you with IT-S and you'll get what you so rightly deserve.

Chuck - by that way of thinking EP, FP, GTL, & SPU should also all be running with big bore, as none of them has put even half a dozen cars out this year, and all of them are faster classes than ITR. Add STU once we get a real full-tilt car from that new class, because if they're not faster than ITR something is wrong. I'm sure the GTP drivers will thank you for that too.

[Knestis]

ITR IS the biggest fish in the IT pond and should be treated that way.

This either needs a winky face or it's an amazing arrogant position to take. If you're serious, my concern for your collective position just took a nosedive.

K

[yannisalex2000]

I agree John - rolling around the track by yourself is a driver ed day, not a race. It's not always about where you finish but the excitement of passing and being passed and working on race craft. Running door to door with other cars in all classes is where it's at, at least, that's what I like and it's missing at SP for ITR. Lot's of the tracks in the NE have S and R battling to the finish and I don't know anybody complaining about messing up class specific races.

But I don't think this will be a problem because ITR will skip SP and go to NJMP.

I do respect that the guys getting lapped lose some track time. When I ran GT1 at LimeRock the friggin race lasted 15 minutes because we ran in the low 50's for a 15 or 18 lap race. Anybody grouped with GT1 was pretty unhappy - nobody wants a shorter race.

I understand. I was always envious of the NE ITR/ITS racing watching your videos and such.I am still bringing you a nice picture taken by Roz.

[Greg Amy]

This either needs a winky face or it's an amazing arrogant position to take. If you're serious, my concern for your collective position just took a nosedive.

K

+1. And this isn't the first time I've heard such similar blather from an ITR competitor. I'm quickly becoming less and less empathetic to the class's self-proclaimed "issues".

Suck it up, there's no crying in baseball.

[yannisalex2000]

This either needs a winky face or it's an amazing arrogant position to take. If you're serious, my concern for your collective position just took a nosedive.

K

You are right.I dont know how to use those icons

[dave parker]

ITR IS the biggest fish in the IT pond and should be treated that way.

I hope that this is a typo. Otherwise I am done listening.

cheers
dave parker

[yannisalex2000]

+1. And this isn't the first time I've heard such similar blather from an ITR competitor. I'm quickly becoming less and less empathetic to the class's self-proclaimed "issues".

Suck it up, there's no crying in baseball.

I am not crying I am saying.My concern is about the future of the class at WDCR.