Diff Coolers

[StephenB]

What are you thoughts about allowing Rear End Diff Coolers into IT? To far of a stretch based on the philosphy of IT? If I do run one can I disconnect it when running IT events or would that still be considered a no no just having it part of the car.

Interested in what you think...

Stephen

[Gary L]

Required reading:

https://improvedtouring.com...ad.php?t=26985

Just for the record, I'm in the "no more coolers" camp.

As for running a disconnected diff cooler in IT - show me the ITCS paragraph that says you can mount a non-functional diff cooler. IMO, this would clearly fall under IIDSYCTYC. For that matter, the cooler could also be considered illegal ballast... unless of course, you mount it in the passenger footwell.

[joeg]

Beyond a stretch.

Better to solve the problem with chemistry--if it is a big problem. You can treat and coat your R&P with the latest high-tech magic dust and be legal; final drives being free in IT.

Good lubricant--changed frequently--helps also.

[jlucas]

I think they should be allowed just like oil coolers, and non-stock radiators.

Also they are allowed in Touring, so cars aging out into IT would potentially already have them.

[dickita15]

Actually in Touring I believe while transmission coolers are allowed differential coolers are only allowed on a case by case basis. Of course in Touring they do not have the options of touching the internals as we do.

[Andy Bettencourt]

I love the idea of diff coolers. We allow internal components to be uprated, allow us to keep them cool.

[MMiskoe]

If you showed up at impound w/ the cooler there, but disconnected I would commend you for being honest and go on to worry about other things.

I can see the advantage on very few occasions during a sprint race. Longer races, yes, I can see you wanting to keep the oil cool rather than buying new guts for the diff.

If the R&P and LSD system you are using comes standard w/ an oil cooler I would consider arguing it. "Any final drive...." "Any limited slip..." provided they fit w/in the stock housing w/o modification. That is where you will have problems, getting the oil in & out w/o drilling holes in something. But if the "Gnicar TSR" brand ring & pinion comes standard with an oil cooler, well its part of the system. Isn't it? How is that different than the aftermarket ECU that utilizes a MAP sensor that gets tapped into an otherwise blank hole in the manifold? There is an allowance for the MAP sensor now, similar to spherical bearings that after a few years of people using the loophole the ITCS was altered to allow it.

Considering I got my log book written up for a carpet hanger being missing where it doesn't say I can remove it, I say this is no more of a stretch in the other direction.

[StephenB]

I am thinking of doing some enduros and running ITE since the Diff is not legal. As others said my diff is 2k and I don't want to throw it away when I could easily just run in ITE. I am just conserned that when I run the PRO-IT stuff or NARRC stuff in ITR that I may get protested even if it is disconnected, as someone above mentioned they would.

I will hold off on installing it for now. I am installing a temp gauge and I will check that out for my sprint races and then make some more decisions later. I bet I can fab something up that can have the entire cooler completely removed from the car when needed.

Stephen

On a side note... what is the reason some of the touring cars are allowed to add one? (other than obvious cooling) Does it actually provide a competitive advatage other than reliability?

[Knestis]

...if the "Gnicar TSR" brand ring & pinion comes standard with an oil cooler, well its part of the system. Isn't it? How is that different than the aftermarket ECU that utilizes a MAP sensor that gets tapped into an otherwise blank hole in the manifold? There is an allowance for the MAP sensor now, similar to spherical bearings that after a few years of people using the loophole the ITCS was altered to allow it.

Considering I got my log book written up for a carpet hanger being missing where it doesn't say I can remove it, I say this is no more of a stretch in the other direction.

...and if the Blowmeister air filter and intake comes with a turbo...? Jeez, guys.

And I was thinking to myself when I opened this today, how I really haven't been given reason to worry recently.



K

EDIT - this is not to say that I think gearbox coolers are necessarily inconsistent with other current allowances.

[Ron Earp]

Considering I got my log book written up for a carpet hanger being missing where it doesn't say I can remove it, I say this is no more of a stretch in the other direction.

Really? Wow. Protest or a tech inspector doing a lot more than tech?

[seckerich]

Diff coolers would be OK if they were limited to 5 psi or less circulating pumps. Anything else opens big can of worms that Kirk sees.

The rear gears on the GA RX8's would die very quickly before we went to the diff and trans coolers with low pressure circulating pumps. One ITR guy changes out to run SCCA sprints but will not run the longer races at $2500 per weekend for gears. No cover mods needed, just in the fill and out the drain plug.

[MMiskoe]

...and if the Blowmeister air filter and intake comes with a turbo...? Jeez, guys.

I didn't say it was a slam dunk, but I do feel it falls in the category of the MAP sensor (before the rule change) or accumulator tanks for fuel cells. These are things that clearly reach past where they were originally thought to go and are based on the allowance that includes the word "any".

Really? Wow. Protest or a tech inspector doing a lot more than tech?

Yup. There is a note in the log book to have it corrected by next event. The sheetmetal that covers the fuel lines in the back of a Miata to be exact. I offered to come back w/ a paddock wide protest on tire pressures, alignment settings, spacing of class letters/numbers and washer bottles but was told not to. The whole affair didn't do much to endear me to tech.

[JeffYoung]

We seem to have gotten by for a long time without these. Maybe I'm getting old and crotchety, but I don't see the need for the allowance.

[Matt93SE]

Yup. There is a note in the log book to have it corrected by next event. The sheetmetal that covers the fuel lines in the back of a Miata to be exact.

That's big difference from a carpet hold-down clip, which is specifically allowed to be removed.. The rules state that there must be a metal shield/bulkhead between the driver compartment and the gas tank or any hose/tube that carries combustible liquid- i.e. oil or fuel lines. and/or those lines must be metal or metal braided.

This is a safety thing for all classes, not a you-can't-remove-that-in-IT thing.

In come classes (like STU), it's mentioned right there in the rules. it's also listed in the regular ruleset under 9.3.(28?) specifically regarding fuel cells, but the same rules apply to the factory tank too. can't remember exactly where it says it, but it's in there.

[lateapex911]

That's big difference from a carpet hold-down clip, which is specifically allowed to be removed.. The rules state that there must be a metal shield/bulkhead between the driver compartment and the gas tank or any hose/tube that carries combustible liquid- i.e. oil or fuel lines. and/or those lines must be metal or metal braided.

This is a safety thing for all classes, not a you-can't-remove-that-in-IT thing.

In come classes (like STU), it's mentioned right there in the rules. it's also listed in the regular ruleset under 9.3.(28?) specifically regarding fuel cells, but the same rules apply to the factory tank too. can't remember exactly where it says it, but it's in there.

I thought that too when i read the post. But, thinking further, I bet those lines are metal. If they ARE rubber, then yea, that's a problem.

[Chip42]

I remember one of the first 6 hour races at summit point(which became the 12 hours) a bunch of 2nd gen RX7s were having diff overheating issues - most teams wound up replacing gear oil every couple of hours in the pits, some keeping their new oil on ice.

the next year I saw none of this. RX7s have only goten faster.

I don't know what the fix was, but the evidence was that it worked. I can't imagine a similar logic wouldn't apply in most cases. it might not be the optimal differential under the current paradigm, but a solution is out there, even if it's a compromise. what's that old saying, "in order to finish first, you must first finish?"

that said, I don't think coolers are outside of the philosophy, necessarily, only that I don't think their need is a foregone conclusion.

[Matt93SE]

I thought that too when i read the post. But, thinking further, I bet those lines are metal. If they ARE rubber, then yea, that's a problem.

I'm assuming the cover he's referring to is the one that covers the fuel pump and the rubber lines that attach the pump/sending unit to the factory hard lines. there's a ~6" section of rubber line there on send and return lines.

http://boostedmiata.com/FAQ/fuel_install/step1.jpg
http://boostedmiata.com/FAQ/fuel_install/step2.jpg

If I saw a car roll through tech without that panel, I'd sure as heck put that in the logbook to fix.

[Andy Bettencourt]

We seem to have gotten by for a long time without these. Maybe I'm getting old and crotchety, but I don't see the need for the allowance.

You could say that about any change you make.

[Chip42]

You could say that about any change you make.

if we add open fluid coolers, I want the evap system and power steering to be allowed for removal to facilitate their instalation.

[Matt93SE]

Secondededed. I installed an aftermarket power steering cooler on my car. The entire power steering system died after the next 1/2 lap on track. So if they're going let you to add coolers, I should be able to remove the whole system so I can simply remove the source of heat.