LRP Results, stories and vids

[lateapex911]

I concur, though you are well aware my motivations had zero to do with "racing" him. I'd have been just tickled pink if he'd been able to run away and hide.

GA

P.S., I concede to the "passing driver's responsibility" rule, always have. But I'm still looking for that "door handle rule", where it's OK for me to move out - or turn in - on someone alongside as long as there's less than 1/2-car overlap. If you find that, let me know.

True. on both counts.

The second one is interesting.

The common perception is that a guy has "overlap sufficient enough to own the corner when the nose of the passing car is about halfway up the car being passed."

Even that statement is grey, and many can and will poke holes in it.

But that's not where I'm going.

I submit that if we assume that is a basic guideline, circumstances alter that "go/no go" condition drastically. (ignoring the actual drivers involved, for the purposes of this discussion)

For example, if I'm racing Dan Sheppard (my fiercest local competitor in my class) for the win in class, that's a good guideline, and i know if I'm passing him, I damn well better be to that point at turn in or he's a comin' down, LOL. On the other hand, if I'm racing one of the other guys in IT7, I know I might get away with only having a nose inside. And I'll try that, leaving a leeetle reserve in braking so I can jump back should they decide to claim the corner.

Conversely, I know I will come down on Dan Sheppard as if he isn't even on the track unless I think he's got a nose up to my door. (Key word: "think". I'll check the mirrors of course, and I'll use the usual spacial awareness and timing clues, but in the end if I feel he COULD be that far alongside, I yield, if I can't confirm that he actually is.)

Now, in the rain, I'll change that go/no go. In qualifying, I wouldn't think about fighting for a corner like that. Dumb. My lap is ruined, so it's better for all concerned to not draw it out.

In a test day and if I come up on say, a Legend car, there's no way in hell I'm sticking a nose in unless I have my nose even with his nose at turn in...at the least. Or I just back out and give him a 20 second gap.

In a race like this? If I'm slower, I let the in another class fast guy through. Maybe I'll learn something.

So, I think the whole who owns the corner thing is highly dependent on situation and requires judgement and consideration of the current circumstances.

[lawtonglenn]

Nicely done, Glen! It would be a shame to wreck that beautiful Saturn.

thanks Bruce ... but Jeff Lawton has the Saturn ... I have the RX7

.

[Drew M]

.

here is a quick 2 minute segment of Saturday morning's ITR/S/B race showing
a successful (but very very very close) "Drive Off" to avoid Tyler Monroe's
off course/on course/off course excursion.

I suppose I was betting (correctly) that the grass was dry enough that I wouldn't
go right into the tire wall.

It's too bad Yannis (and Tim Mullen for that matter) weren't able to do this

http://vimeo.com/25408884

.

That was me in the RX-7 you guys were coming up on. I cringed when I looked in my mirror and saw you almost get nailed.

Do you have the next minute or two of that video? I got stuck behind the yellow Golf when it missed west bend and the Ford and BMW went by me. I was not happy. You went by me coming out of the downhill on the last lap.

[gran racing]

But I would NEVER race an ITA guy as hard as i would an IT7 guy for the win. It's not respectful.

Totally depends on the circumstances. In a couple of rain races at LRP I had been close enough to the front of the ITS field...if I had a chance, I would have loved the overall win (without doing anything too foolish to anyone else). Not respectful, oh well. Conversely at the Glen with the two SSM leaders going at it, I settled back, and did not get in the way of their battle (although did have a little fun bumping to keep them close together).

In this instance, neither car had anyone to battle with in-class and I can see them wanting to have fun.

I guess is where in the field does it become respectful to battle someone in another class? 3rd place, 4th, 10th, 15th?

[BruceG]

[QUOTE=lawtonglenn;323313]thanks Bruce ... but Jeff Lawton has the Saturn ... I have the RX7

.[/QUOTEsorry about that,Glen,Now that I recognize your RX7...also a great car.....LOL

[Andy Bettencourt]

Jake,

Not sure I agree on your assessment of the overlap, it's 'amount' and how it disappeared. Either way, it was DAMN small, if anything when contact was initiated.

Like I said, putting myself in EACH drivers seat, I would hold myself accountable in BOTH cases. If I was Anthony, if I 'stay on line' when I knew a car could be there - I risk contact.

If I was Greg, I know that if I hold my line I risk contact on track out.

Both cars could have avoided it should eather driver chosen to go that way.

[dave parker]

Here is my view from West Virginia.
Both drivers fucked up and violated GCR 6.11.1 A,B,C, and D.
Both drivers have damaged racecars.
Both drivers are lucky that the stewards of this event are being lenient and letting "the boys sort it out".
If I was a steward at this event I would have through Chief Stewards Action or Request For Action reffered both to the SOM recommending they be disqualified for violating GCR 6.11.1 A,B,C,D.

Or we have both drivers scrotum's shaved publicly with a dull rusty razor. Driver's choice.




cheers
dave parker

[lateapex911]

Totally depends on the circumstances. In a couple of rain races at LRP I had been close enough to the front of the ITS field...if I had a chance, I would have loved the overall win (without doing anything too foolish to anyone else). Not respectful, oh well. Conversely at the Glen with the two SSM leaders going at it, I settled back, and did not get in the way of their battle (although did have a little fun bumping to keep them close together).

In this instance, neither car had anyone to battle with in-class and I can see them wanting to have fun.

I guess is where in the field does it become respectful to battle someone in another class? 3rd place, 4th, 10th, 15th?

yea, I was referring to a case where I would be trying to get around the lead (or top 3 say) ITA car in my IT7 car, and assuming that he was significantly ahead of his competition. I wouldn't push the "half alongside" go/no go decider as much in that case. I'd want to be clearly clean. CERTAINLY not a "I hope I'm clear" deal..

Jake,

Not sure I agree on your assessment of the overlap, it's 'amount' and how it disappeared. Either way, it was DAMN small, if anything when contact was initiated.

Like I said, putting myself in EACH drivers seat, I would hold myself accountable in BOTH cases. If I was Anthony, if I 'stay on line' when I knew a car could be there - I risk contact.

If I was Greg, I know that if I hold my line I risk contact on track out.

Both cars could have avoided it should either driver chosen to go that way.

Yea, I agree Andy, the bottom line is that it needed BOTH drivers to commit to their turf to make it happen.

I too would feel accountable in both cases. I'd feel more accountable if i were in the Porsche though, but maybe that's because I have no interest in holding a faster and lower classed car up. But yea, you're right.

[dj10]

I know and like both GA & Anthony. After watching the video and knowing the race was only half way completed leads me to believe that Anthony was doing more than just making his car wide he was blocking and instead of setting him up for a pass GA lost his cool and forced the issue. I didn't see anyone on GA's ass so he didn't need too do a desperate pass. Why Anthony was blocking is unknown to me since they are in different classes. I would have left GA by and watched him for awhile before trying again to pass him near the end of the race if it was possible. I didn't see any of the race before so something might have happened that I don't know about. I just commented on the video posted.
This is my story and I'm sticking to it. 8~P

[yannisalex2000]

Antony has been racing in the NE division for the past 10-12 years or so.For any one to suggest that he doesnt know his way around LR is plain wrong to say the least.Since both drivers are going to be racing in the same group for many years to come I say that the PR Departments tone the rhetoric down and let the two men resolve any issues they might have by themselves. Also there was another incident during the same race. We haven't heard anything from these drivers.No accusations no finger pointing no trash talk.NOTHING. NOT A WORD.I don't know maybe this is the correct way to handle things. JOHN A. ITR #53 WDC Region

[Jeremy Billiel]

Antony has been racing in the NE division for the past 10-12 years or so.For any one to suggest that he doesnt know his way around LR is plain wrong to say the least.Since both drivers are going to be racing in the same group for many years to come I say that the PR Departments tone the rhetoric down and let the two men resolve any issues they might have by themselves. Also there was another incident during the same race. We haven't heard anything from these drivers.No accusations no finger pointing no trash talk.NOTHING. NOT A WORD.I don't know maybe this is the correct way to handle things. JOHN A. ITR #53 WDC Region

I find it hard to believe that if Anthony is so good why he was so slow... How many hp does a freakin' 944 TURBO make?

[gran racing]

John, you posted your comments earlier in this thread didn't you?

If both parties are on the forum and can be fairly civil, why not share the learning experience for others to benefit and learn from? It also opens this up to different perspectives and takes on the incident.

[lateapex911]

Antony has been racing in the NE division for the past 10-12 years or so.For any one to suggest that he doesnt know his way around LR is plain wrong to say the least.

Good point. ITA and SM cars are in the 2s. Antony, with one of the best chassis ever under him, and nearly 3 times the hp pushing the car was significantly slower. So, something wasn't right there. Not saying he doesn't know 'how to get around LRP", but it wasn't showing at that point.

I've been racing for many years, but I would bet my house that Bill Auberlin would freakin school me in my own car around any track I chose. He's got talent. I don't have that talent. Experience isn't the only story.

[Jeremy Billiel]

Is mylaps available yet?

[ner88]

FWIW, the Miata driver is the victim here and insert all armchair driver/hindsight disclaimers here, but he was two feet on the brake and trying to turn at the same time... someone should explain that to him and also point out that its okay to drive off the track to avoid, especially where there is all that room.

Really!
http://www.youtube.com/user/utubeyt#p/a/f/0/_uR0TkSVkAc

So, what would you teach him? NJ national, second place finish SM.

[dj10]

I find it hard to believe that if Anthony is so good why he was so slow... How many hp does a freakin' 944 TURBO make?

Jeremy as you know there could be a multipal factors for why a person isn't going fast. I'm not condoning anybody in that video for what happen but if his handling was off, tires, maybe a couple of other factors we don't know about. I know it's happened to me also the only difference I wasn't trying to stay in the lead. I know his turbo has a restrictor.

I do know John A. is right these guys need to be honest with themselves and each other and talk it out.

My own personal feelings on blocking is that it should not be part of racing even in pro and in-class racing, making your car wide is something altogether different. You block, you do it at your own peril.

[Jeremy Billiel]

Jeremy as you know there could be a multipal factors for why a person isn't going fast. I'm not condoning anybody in that video for what happen but if his handling was off, tires, maybe a couple of other factors we don't know about. I know it's happened to me also the only difference I wasn't trying to stay in the lead. I know his turbo has a restrictor.

Dan - you beat me there. So if he was having "issues" why not get out of the way?

[StephenB]

Really!
http://www.youtube.com/user/utubeyt#p/a/f/0/_uR0TkSVkAc

So, what would you teach him? NJ national, second place finish SM.

FWIW, the Miata driver is the victim here and insert all armchair driver/hindsight disclaimers here, but he was two feet on the brake and trying to turn at the same time... someone should explain that to him and also point out that its okay to drive off the track to avoid, especially where there is all that room.


Now can we please talk about the rest of the weekend!?

Chris,

I am shocked with this comment more than everything else I have heard here. I think that this particular driver has excellent skill and to be honest I think you should watch more of his videos. I really think you could probably learn a lot from him. Use his techniques next year in the snow, in a controlled environment, (maybe do some BMW club ice racing) you may be suprised on what your missing. Try stuff in the snow/ice not on track at high speed! Same outcomes at much slower speeds!

Stephen

PS: Not trying to be a dink and I do like you a lot but I can't help but defend someone that deserves defending. I honestly don't know the driver well but I did spend some time watching a few of his videos to form an opinion of his skill.

[Jeremy Billiel]

For what its worth.... Here is the entire race from Yiannis's incar. This may change your opinion a little although we all agree that Greg was pressing the issue.

See 3:30 to 6:30

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK_sI6zCWC0&list=PL4E584D055E19FD56[/ame]

See 3:00 to 6:05

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy3DRGlxPUA&list=PL4E584D055E19FD56[/ame]

[gran racing]

I don't see how he could have easily (maybe someone of extreme talent could have) avoided the 944 (the Meotter). Honestly, I could put myself in both Greg and the 944's position just looking at that one section of the track. There is more to it to race which may have changed my outlook.

My own personal feelings on blocking is that it should not be part of racing even in pro and in-class racing

I absolutely agree but haven't been in a pro racing position where if that guy gets by me it means the end of my pro racing days. It's easy for me to say I wouldn't think I'd do what it takes but until in that situation... Same general concept here. I could see myself tracking out at the end of big bend; I could also see myself going in like Greg did believing room would be given.