Del-Sol-si Set up

[fastist12]

Having a problem with the car pushing from Apex to Exit,The car turns in good. Cannot get on the gas.
Spring Rates
800R
600F
Koni Race
22mm F bar
24mmR bar
225-15 Toyo 888s [tire temp and preasures are good ,, My CRX is on 888s and dont have a problem dialing them in.
Complete Bushing kit
1/8 toe out Front
1/16 toe out rear. Possibly should be more agressive on the rear toe? Just dosnt rotate like the CRX
Camber is -3 front and -2.5 rear That will change from track to track
The suspension is not in Bump....
Ride height 5.5 in
the cross weights are at 50%
Iam at ITS weight
Have tried many different set ups with the same results
This was the first season with this car and not extremly happy with its performance
Everything else about the car is good Power/braking
Ok there is one thing that this car has and its a welded Diff...
Could this diff be the problem
I do have a LSD for 2011
Would like to here from other Del-Sol ITS owners
Thanks
Fastist

[red986s]

Nevermind

[Lael Cleland]

I would say smallen up your front bar & throw those 888s in the trash... I had one set, ran them on a miata & VW, they are slippery cold, warm & hot...

I have been chief on an H1/STU delsol for 10 years, we run 700 rear & 550fr, 19mm front & rear, delrin bushings up front and stock rubber in back.... It rotates in a heart beat..
LSD is huge! it pulls you threw the corner.... If your running stock R&P, get a 99 civic si R&P... Big difference!

Opinion only....

[ITA_honda]

disconnect/remove front sway bar

[almskidd]

I would bet the welded diff is part of your problem, VW guys seem to really like that kind of setup though so I am not going to knock it. A proper LSD should do wonders for allowing you to carry some oversteer when getting back on the throttle.

[Bob Roth]

I've owned a 88 CRX, a 95 Sol VTEC and a type r teg. I agree with Lael in suspecting the welded diff. I have always run a Quaife or type r diff and think a quaif or similar diff would solve this problem. My spring rates are similar to your's. Also I have always had a front bar. I don't know why I have always run a front bar it works. My CRX Si and the sol came with front bars, they were both ex pro cars and were exceptionally easy to rotate and pull through turns and I wasn't inclined to change they way they were.

Having raced a 88si, a Sol and a Teg, my reference is that sol drives much like a slightly longer wheelbase CRX when set up right. It will get into a turn faster than a teg and is happier at being thrown around than a teg. Its virtue is its less nervous than a CRX on high speed turns.

One last comment, I don't know toyos but I hear they are not universally loved. Carrying around that extra weight, tires are more important on a sol than a crx.

[Bob Roth]

One other thing, I would run a stock front bar, I don't know what the diameter is but 22mm seems thicker than stock. Having some bar is good, but too much I think is not helpful.

[fastist12]

LC, Your opinion is well taken.We have tried dirrerent spring rates f&R ,have tried a smaller front bar and no bars . I Now there are some PPl that dont like the 888s, and prefer the RA-1 Shaved. Iam going to the Hoisier . The Stock tranny is in the car S4C welded with its 4.4 final .[ Home track is a 4.6 Track] I have a ITR S-80 LSD trans with a 4.7 final , Could put the LSD in the S4C.
Red. Cant change my rear diff ratio iam FWD
LC. how agressive is your rear toe out??
This Car has eluded me ,We have been setting up Hondas for many years with championship sucsess here in the North west. and when i say ive tried everything I think I have ,We have taken BIG swings at the set up and not much changes. Iam hoping that the LSD and tire change will help. The Del-Sols Power to weight should be faster than the CRXs . We are 160+ WHP at 2375 with driver,
Is it Possible that that welded diff and the longer wheelbase is the root of the problem . No Rotation
there are not many PPl running the Del-Sol and information is hard to get
Thanks


WCS Motorsports
Stormpower Race Engines

[red986s]

Red. Cant change my rear diff ratio iam FWD

Wow am I crack head or what? Sorry read your first sentence and started typing away. I'll shut up now.

[Chip42]

it's basically a Civic Si - if the ITS civic can be made to hanlde, so can this.

throw out the spool and get a good LSD (quaiffe, mugen, OSgiken, ...)

you spring rates are in the ballpark, i't strack and driver dependant but you have enough rate to keep the weight on the front wheels and help the rear "not work".

re: ITR LSD - if you plan on dropping it into the B16 box you'll find that it doesn't fit. different bolt count and circle (on diff) on the B16A box vs the later B18s and B16B. I don't know why. I think the shafts and carrier bearings will swap though, so the ITR's 4.7 along with diff should work.

[almskidd]

One other thing, I would run a stock front bar, I don't know what the diameter is but 22mm seems thicker than stock. Having some bar is good, but too much I think is not helpful.

22mm up front sounds stock to me. The 92-95 Civic front bar was 21mm and the 96-00 (excluding Si) was 22mm. Del Sol is the same chassis family as a the 92-95 civic. Plus those bars have many bends in them making them significantly less effective.

[Bob Roth]

HP is spot on, I agree with Chip 42 on the handling. Its the shortest 92+ later wheelbase compared to the CRX, my opinion is handling is virtually the same.

About the only other thing that I have noticed on these cars is that I think they like a longer armed rear sway bar, like something from speedway engineering with 15" arms. Personally I think the stock bars with 4 inch arms have problems with bind. However, I don't think you will see a huge change, I have raced with short bars and they work good enough. http://www.asrparts.com/ is along the idea, Here are the speedway parts. http://www.1speedway.com/Swaybar_Arms.htm http://www.1speedway.com/Swaybars.htm

[Lael Cleland]

I say its the 888s..... worst tire i have ever raced on... I have run a welded dif in my old 16v scirocco, I had to trail brake, run 50+psi in rear tires, toe it out 1/2 in, turn way early... it was a fight...

The best thing we ever did on our delsol was the 4.7 R&P.... I am not a honda guy.. I like rebuilding honda tranys more than VW LOL.. I dont know the codes/ years... Ours has a b18a? non vetec acura motor.... 180HP @ 2100lbs...



I like to run lots of rear toe out, passive rear steering... driving style...
Good luck & Have fun!

[Chip42]

no rack swaps like that allowed in IT, but it's possible the 888's suck THAT much. either way, no spool in the honda - it might work for VWs and Renaults and whatnot but unless you're going strait, it's not your friend in a honda.

[Lael Cleland]

I almost broke both thumbs once with a welded diff, thinking it was going to zig when it zagged... Last year was the first year our DelSol could run in SCCA due to the B18, Thank god for STU!!!!

The one thing we have been talking about lately is the rear trailing arm bushings, ours have 160K miles on them, I think that's why ours rotates easy... Our car is scary FAST, compared to my ITB rabbit, 1.45:00 at MAM.. I just dont want to build/buy/install spherical bearings and end up with a poor handling car again.... Its hard to figure out what's going on with tire temps, usually very even across & wear is minimal on the rear... I think we loose a bunch of camber when the out side rear is loaded, witch also toes it out.. so straight line its riding on the inside and out side threw a corner...=even temps...???....Only a theory... I don't have time to try brgs any time soon....

But if I or Tim(owner) aint on our A game, the car is a bitch, 11/10s is not good, 9.8/10s the car works.... Not enough caffeine or too much beer the night before.. its rear bumper is passing the front.......

My last theory is Hoosiers can cover cover up any small set-up flaws, a nice old set of RA1s show the flaws.... The side wall of an A6 has more grip that the 888... LOL .
I have never disliked a product as much as the 888..

All opinion... just $.02

[Chip42]

Lael - re honda trailing arm bushings: replace with new OE honda parts the answer used to be MUGEN but supposedly the durometer has been changed on the OE to match the mugens so that they are effectively identical. aside from that, it leeps the handling pretty much the same. If you want a bit more predictability or driveability, throw rear camber at it and use less rebound damping. if that doesn't do it then soften the rear bar, springs, or both.

urethane bushings bind in that application - avoid them. sphericals might work but I've heard bad things. theoretically they will allow the needed motion and keep the strange angle changes in check. We keep good OE stuff in the trailing arms and the cars all work great (experience from ITS civic and Teg GSR, FP civic EF, ITA CRX Si, ITB civic DX EF9, ...).

[Lael Cleland]

Thanks Chip! You saved me 2 weeks of fabriacation!... OEM it is!!!!

[fastist12]

Thanks everybody for your inputs.
going to remove the weded diff and replace with an LSD
going to try a tire change
going to scale a little more weight on the front wheels
going to get a little more agressive on the rear toe out
thanks

WCS Motorsports

[JIgou]

If you're planning on changing tires (which it sounds like you are), I personally wouldn't spend a bunch of other cash on anything until you can try the car with those new tires. If you want to tweak some settings, fine.....but going from the 888 to a Hoosier is going to be a dramatic difference, and it's possible the setup you've got will be much happier on the Hoosier. (It's also possible it will be much worse, but you won't know until you try!)

[fastist12]

another question
I have SR-R-14N ----SR-L-14N Knuckles on the car are these the correct Knuckles for the Del Sol
I now they are 3 gen Integra GSR/ITR or 92-95 Civic
Also have a set of So-R-14N S0-L-14N