May 2011 Fastrack

[tnord]

all i know, and all i have influence over is what happens TODAY. not what happened 10, 5, 2, or even 1 year ago.

and TODAY there is no politicing going on. nobody is protecting their own turf, and jeff has even shown to go in the opposite direction of his specific interests. no ITAC members are out in public screaming bloody murder trying to force the CRBs hand. nobody on the ITAC has shown any desire that they are trying to move on to the CRB or any other club position. in my short time all i've seen are outcomes that have been thoroughly discussed and carefully voted upon.

heck, just last night i killed a vote because i personally had no confidence in the data that was being presented...so now we go searching for more.

[JeffYoung]

Dave, no problem -- I know this is frustrating.

I may have muddied this up some. There are two separate issues:

1. The 30% default in ITB for multi-valves is "confirmed" in the sense that it is in the IT Ops Manual and I don't see it changing. I don't necessarily agree with that, but I respect those who thought it was the right thing to do and the decision on it is "made." It certainly could be revisited but my personal belief is that it will not be.

2. The next question is whether the Accord as a 3-valve gets the default, or gets another multiplier based on "what we know." We are just starting to look into this one (I only made the first hour of the call last night so not sure where we are with it).

I hope that helps clear things up some.

I didn't realize a decision had been made by the ITAC on the 30% default review that I submitted. In the Sandbox thread, there certainly seemed to be many who thought it was BS and raised a few eyebrows from ITAC members. Guess I'll get some type of official reply to the request I sent on that specific issue in a Fastrack shortly? Right now the status is simply that is has been received. Sorry, didn't realize the ITAC confirmed it's ruling. (The Accord is a seperate item.)

Oh, and does this still just apply to ITB & ITC or is it now being equally applied to the other classes.

I truly hate the feel of politics and inconsistency that goes on in IT and many other categories.

[JeffYoung]

And I do want to reiterate what Travis said about the makeup of the ITAC. Since I've been on it, I've not seen politicking or people with higher aspirations. What I've seen are folks who care about the category and not mucking it up.

I know it can appear differently sometimes, but the calls are as Travis said long discussions about what the RIGHT thing to do is.

We may not always get it right, but we do try.

[Greg Amy]

Since I've been on it, I've not seen politicking or people with higher aspirations.

Unless, of course....YOU'RE PART OF THE CONSPIRACY!!!!! Yes, it all makes sense now....

Just sayin'.

[Bill Miller]

Correct.

Well, actually, what we did was run it through at 30% for multi-valve (3 valves) as the default in B since there was zero evidence the car made 40% or whatever it was tagged at.

So where's the evidence that a Rabbit GTI makes the 38% it is tagged with?

[Greg Amy]

Was I the only one that saw Bill Miller as the last poster and thought, "uh oh..."

[shwah]

Sounds like Bill or Brooke, or any other A1 VW guy might want to consider writing a letter.

A bunch of ex-B VWs might come back (if they could make 1950#).

[JeffYoung]

Write a request to have it reprocessed and we will look at it. I've said that before.

I know nothing about these cars, what gains the make, what the stock horsepower is, etc. If you'd like to see this changed or corrected, someone (not me, as again, I don't know anything about them) needs to step up and do the research and submit the request.

So where's the evidence that a Rabbit GTI makes the 38% it is tagged with?

[rsportvolvo]

Looks like the Volvo 240 re-process results will finally be in the next Fastrack. Not sure if the 142 re-process is included in that. At any rate I expect a reduction in weight and a possible reclassification in ITC. If that is the case ITC could be what most ITB cars get "re-processed" at. Any insight into this possible trend?

[Hoof Hearted]

Sounds like Bill or Brooke, or any other A1 VW guy might want to consider writing a letter.

A bunch of ex-B VWs might come back (if they could make 1950#).

I did in fact write a letter (#4729) and requested it be processed at the 30% gain (to stay in itb) even though it's an 8V. This would drop the weight of the 8V Scirocco II from 2130 to 1949.

[Bill Miller]

I did in fact write a letter (#4729) and requested it be processed at the 30% gain (to stay in itb) even though it's an 8V. This would drop the weight of the 8V Scirocco II from 2130 to 1949.

Brooke,

While I applaud you stepping up and writing a letter, I don't think the system is set up to request a higher multiplier than can be supported by data. Why should that car be the only 8v processed @ 30% if there is no supporting evidence to warrant it? The car should be run through the process @ 25% (again, provided that there is no supporting evidence that shows that it should be higher), and if it nets out at a weight that is deemed too light for ITB, it should be moved to ITC.

For the most part, the process should be blind as to what class a car lands in, so long as it fits a certain parameter envelope.

[shwah]

Brooke,

While I applaud you stepping up and writing a letter, I don't think the system is set up to request a higher multiplier than can be supported by data. Why should that car be the only 8v processed @ 30% if there is no supporting evidence to warrant it? The car should be run through the process @ 25% (again, provided that there is no supporting evidence that shows that it should be higher), and if it nets out at a weight that is deemed too light for ITB, it should be moved to ITC.

For the most part, the process should be blind as to what class a car lands in, so long as it fits a certain parameter envelope.

The 8V A2 is processed at 30%. My expectation is that the A1 would gain at least as much, as it has the "worlds worst" exhaust manifold - the one which when removed in favor of a dual outlet dp on the A2 resulted in a 5hp bump in oem rating.

[Bill Miller]

The 8V A2 is processed at 30%. My expectation is that the A1 would gain at least as much, as it has the "worlds worst" exhaust manifold - the one which when removed in favor of a dual outlet dp on the A2 resulted in a 5hp bump in oem rating.

Chris,

Is there supporting evidence that validates why the A2 8v VW is processed @ 30%, or is it a case of "we know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy..."? I'm pretty sure the A3 VW's are processed @ 25%. I haven't checked the A1 VW's in ITC.

I thought one of the big things w/ the new process was supposed to be documentation and supporting evidence when there were variances from the norm. Well, except for the >2 valve / cylinder ITB cars.

[shwah]

Chris,

Is there supporting evidence that validates why the A2 8v VW is processed @ 30%, or is it a case of "we know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy..."? I'm pretty sure the A3 VW's are processed @ 25%. I haven't checked the A1 VW's in ITC.

I thought one of the big things w/ the new process was supposed to be documentation and supporting evidence when there were variances from the norm. Well, except for the >2 valve / cylinder ITB cars.

The answer I received was that the ITAC "has data" that it is a 30% motor. I know mine does not, but I'm flow testing a stack of heads and intakes to see if I can eke that out of it.

The A3, if it is processed equally to the A2 on other factors, appears to be at a 22 or 23% adder.

[JeffYoung]

A3 is processed at 25%. We just voted to recommend removing the 50 lb deduct for the beam axle.

[lateapex911]

A3 is processed at 25%. We just voted to recommend removing the 50 lb deduct for the beam axle.

Bingo! well done.

[Knestis]

A3 is processed at 25%. We just voted to recommend removing the 50 lb deduct for the beam axle.

Gran owez me beerz.

K

[gran racing]

The irony is that I don't even care anymore. I'll still get you some beerz though! Okay, so I did crack a little smile. lol I really just want cars classed on a level playing field. That's been my issue all along.

[JeffYoung]

And that is the goal. Will take longer to get there than people want, and not everything will be perfect, but that is the goal.

Plus some folks have different perceptions of what is a level playing field than others.

[shwah]

Good move on the A3.

When do the competitors start sending in their +25% gain dyno sheets so that we can put more weight on them? /sarcasm