Del-Sol-si Set up

[fastist12]

Having a problem with the car pushing from Apex to Exit,The car turns in good. Cannot get on the gas.
Spring Rates
800R
600F
Koni Race
22mm F bar
24mmR bar
225-15 Toyo 888s [tire temp and preasures are good ,, My CRX is on 888s and dont have a problem dialing them in.
Complete Bushing kit
1/8 toe out Front
1/16 toe out rear. Possibly should be more agressive on the rear toe? Just dosnt rotate like the CRX
Camber is -3 front and -2.5 rear That will change from track to track
The suspension is not in Bump....
Ride height 5.5 in
the cross weights are at 50%
Iam at ITS weight
Have tried many different set ups with the same results
This was the first season with this car and not extremly happy with its performance
Everything else about the car is good Power/braking
Ok there is one thing that this car has and its a welded Diff...
Could this diff be the problem
I do have a LSD for 2011
Would like to here from other Del-Sol ITS owners
Thanks
Fastist

[red986s]

Nevermind

[Lael Cleland]

I would say smallen up your front bar & throw those 888s in the trash... I had one set, ran them on a miata & VW, they are slippery cold, warm & hot...

I have been chief on an H1/STU delsol for 10 years, we run 700 rear & 550fr, 19mm front & rear, delrin bushings up front and stock rubber in back.... It rotates in a heart beat..
LSD is huge! it pulls you threw the corner.... If your running stock R&P, get a 99 civic si R&P... Big difference!

Opinion only....

[ITA_honda]

disconnect/remove front sway bar

[almskidd]

I would bet the welded diff is part of your problem, VW guys seem to really like that kind of setup though so I am not going to knock it. A proper LSD should do wonders for allowing you to carry some oversteer when getting back on the throttle.

[Bob Roth]

I've owned a 88 CRX, a 95 Sol VTEC and a type r teg. I agree with Lael in suspecting the welded diff. I have always run a Quaife or type r diff and think a quaif or similar diff would solve this problem. My spring rates are similar to your's. Also I have always had a front bar. I don't know why I have always run a front bar it works. My CRX Si and the sol came with front bars, they were both ex pro cars and were exceptionally easy to rotate and pull through turns and I wasn't inclined to change they way they were.

Having raced a 88si, a Sol and a Teg, my reference is that sol drives much like a slightly longer wheelbase CRX when set up right. It will get into a turn faster than a teg and is happier at being thrown around than a teg. Its virtue is its less nervous than a CRX on high speed turns.

One last comment, I don't know toyos but I hear they are not universally loved. Carrying around that extra weight, tires are more important on a sol than a crx.

[fastist12]

LC, Your opinion is well taken.We have tried dirrerent spring rates f&R ,have tried a smaller front bar and no bars . I Now there are some PPl that dont like the 888s, and prefer the RA-1 Shaved. Iam going to the Hoisier . The Stock tranny is in the car S4C welded with its 4.4 final .[ Home track is a 4.6 Track] I have a ITR S-80 LSD trans with a 4.7 final , Could put the LSD in the S4C.
Red. Cant change my rear diff ratio iam FWD
LC. how agressive is your rear toe out??
This Car has eluded me ,We have been setting up Hondas for many years with championship sucsess here in the North west. and when i say ive tried everything I think I have ,We have taken BIG swings at the set up and not much changes. Iam hoping that the LSD and tire change will help. The Del-Sols Power to weight should be faster than the CRXs . We are 160+ WHP at 2375 with driver,
Is it Possible that that welded diff and the longer wheelbase is the root of the problem . No Rotation
there are not many PPl running the Del-Sol and information is hard to get
Thanks


WCS Motorsports
Stormpower Race Engines

[red986s]

Red. Cant change my rear diff ratio iam FWD

Wow am I crack head or what? Sorry read your first sentence and started typing away. I'll shut up now.

[Chip42]

it's basically a Civic Si - if the ITS civic can be made to hanlde, so can this.

throw out the spool and get a good LSD (quaiffe, mugen, OSgiken, ...)

you spring rates are in the ballpark, i't strack and driver dependant but you have enough rate to keep the weight on the front wheels and help the rear "not work".

re: ITR LSD - if you plan on dropping it into the B16 box you'll find that it doesn't fit. different bolt count and circle (on diff) on the B16A box vs the later B18s and B16B. I don't know why. I think the shafts and carrier bearings will swap though, so the ITR's 4.7 along with diff should work.

[fastist12]

another question
I have SR-R-14N ----SR-L-14N Knuckles on the car are these the correct Knuckles for the Del Sol
I now they are 3 gen Integra GSR/ITR or 92-95 Civic
Also have a set of So-R-14N S0-L-14N

[Chip42]

according to thehondapartsstore.com and Acuraoemparts.com:

L = 51215-SR3-000/-N10 (ABS)
R = 51210-SR3-000/-N10 (ABS)

same as an EG civic and DC teg. this probably doesn't match what (if anything) is cast into the piece, so no idea what the 2 different numbers you list are. something about that seems strange to me so I would do some more research (find someone with a stock del Sol Vtec and find out)

[fastist12]

Yea i have the same numbers,,93-95 civic 2 dr, My GSR has the sr-r-14n knuckles .. the del sol came with a set of those . And yes ill have to look at a street car .. and i have that set with the S0-r-14n casting numbers , They came with the car as spares when i bought it.looking at all angles
thanks for the reply

[quadzjr]

just thinking out loud, but swaping to a stickier tire (hoosier over R888). you may be masking the problem. I fyou can setup the car's balance on R888's and maximize both front and rear. Then swaping out to a stickeir tire and maximizing that tire will be easier. As a cars "setup" will remain roughly constant. however you may need over all up spring/shock rates due to the increase in traction loading.

In short if you are understeering with tire A. Putting sticky tire B the car will still understeer (as you haven't changed the car's setup). You should be faster as the car will have more grip.

This argument is in broad statements. Obviously there are small chnages in setup by swaping tires. differences in tires desired slip angles, sidewall, and the amount of camber and caster they like. Are all variables that may or may not help you from tire to the other.

[trobbins]

We used to race a 1991 Civic Standard in ITC, We only ran Hoosier tires no fr sway bar and an Si rear bar. 600#fr and 850#rr spring rates. We also were using PRO shocks inverted with coilovers. The car also had a KAAZ LSD.
The car was very driveable and very fast with this setup and I believe no one has beaten out lap race record at Mid Ohio yet in ITC.

[fastist12]

Update;
Thanks for all your input
Changes made
Went back to a basic Honda set up
800F
600R
Front and Rear bar in
1/16 toe out-F
0 toe in R
Scaled at 50% cross weights
1400lbs on the front
800lbs on the rear
race weight 2430
Changed front Knuckles from Civic R to Delsol OEM[ackermen is different]
LSD installed and 4.7 Final drive
New shaved 888s 225s
Practice revealed I had to much oversrear
Removed rear bar and the car was to tite
Set rear bar at its shortest setting and Bingo
Had a great race with a 4 car breakaway and had many position swaps at track record times , I could put the car anywhere i wanted it ,What a fun car to drive . Finished 3rd O/A [ Had it in the bag but got penilized for short cutting the Chicane]
Wont do that again LOL
Thanks again for all the input

[Matt93SE]

So the big changes I see are the LSD and the front knuckles are different. rest of the setup looks similar/same as the initial?
Just trying to figure out what you did that solved the problem. I'm going to put money on chunking the welded diff.

Welded diffs on a FWD only work on the drag strip from what I've experienced.

Gald you're happy with the new setup though!