Should NON-US motors be allowed in ST?

[Matt93SE]

Now that would just be silly.

[Knestis]

But Ron has a point. We draw lines between "makes perfect sense" and "silly" all the time (see also, WASHER BOTTLES). They are arbitrary. That's why it's so damned important to get the first principles clear before the details are decided. This is (again, as I understand it) a pounds-per-cc class. At that point, who cares where the engine came from?

K

[Andy Bettencourt]

Matt, no issues. Many of us hate it when the 'policing' flag is thrown. It's just not applicable. We can ll do that stuff now. We have to police ourselves.

Again, in order to get my vote, I like to see a real rason TO do it...because in this case, you are creating a situation where finding specifications in order to prove legality will be much harder.

[DoubleXL240Z]

My vote is NO. We have a few people stating that their US engine could be replaced for 1000 with a JDM-yo whatever and they could make a million hp and run for 12 years etc etc!! I read it as "I can win with this engine and not spend alot!!" Then somebody will go out and find some obscure (read:expensive) euro spec RS500 what-have-you and kick their butt, then we add weight to them or something to slow them down. That was already mentioned somewhere on this board. This is the "case by case basis" I have heard about. Then try to put the cat back in the proverbial bag.
Open up ignitions, air intakes etc. keep the compression and cam specs, go out develop them and run em!! Keep the US engines!!
Rant off!! Anybody have any valium??

[Greg Amy]

*IF* non-USDM engines were to be allowed in Super Touring, approval would be on a case-by-case basis and only after receipt of clear technical documentation of the engine(s) (e.g., supporting FSM data). It would not be a willy-nilly Wild West blanket approval of any random engine you'd like to try.

GA

[Chip42]

reasons to: lack of viable entries for STL that don't say "honda" on the valve cover. seriously, the only real option seem to be a Toyota 2ZZ-GE or some 2L motors (SR20DE, MZR LF/Duratec, 2.0L Ecotech) and MAYBE a 1.8L mazda BP, or BMW. the new fiesta motor might give ford a 1.6L worth considering. this is not a growing segment, in general, in the US. diversity in the class will need more options.

STU - less of a need, however a number fo popular options exist and are well documented. because americans had to have torquey motors, the standard motor in the rest of the world was typically one a bit smaller and often much more suited to what we are doing here.

existing cars - there are JDM/EDM swapped cars runing around in track day clubs, marquee clubs, and NASA. some of these would make good entries for ST. we aren't hereing their votes if they aren't yet members, either.

reasons for, under "why not":
class concept APPEARS (no philosopphy yet published) that displacement is close to directly proportional to power under a blanket CR/valve lift scheme. country of origin of the motor doesn't matter in this scheme, why should the market it was sold into?

for SOME makes this could lead to affordable, reliable engines that fit well into the general scheme. some of these are evolutions of USDM motors (SR20DET, RWD SR20DE, SR16/20VE, 4A-GE 20V, later 3S-GE toyotas,...) others were never sold here at all (RB25DET, VW V5s, the rumored physics inverting rally homologation motor made of gold, whatever). speclines can be used to put over/unders at a weight in line with their actual power output.

reasons against:
"unnecessary" which I think depends on what car is in your garage

the arms race to import the physics inverting motor from above.

[Andy Bettencourt]

My biggest issue is the potential lack of availablity of the specs for competitiors to police each other.

[Chip42]

then support case by case allowance with sufficient US language documentation being a prerequisite. I think everyone on the FOR camp would be in support of this compromise.

[Matt93SE]

My biggest issue is the potential lack of availablity of the specs for competitiors to police each other.

IMO, that's just as nonsensical as allowing the physics-defying uber motor above.. Almost every JDM engine I've seen used in the states has a pretty popular following and easily available documentation. I'm sure there are always exceptions, but the internet is a wonderful thing when used for more than just porn and arguing on forums. Information is easy to come by if you know where to look.

[Andy Bettencourt]

IMO, that's just as nonsensical as allowing the physics-defying uber motor above.. Almost every JDM engine I've seen used in the states has a pretty popular following and easily available documentation. I'm sure there are always exceptions, but the internet is a wonderful thing when used for more than just porn and arguing on forums. Information is easy to come by if you know where to look.

Right. I think you are looking through this with JDM-colored glasses. Engines from other countries with a much smaller enthusiast following could be problematic.

Just trying to weigh the potential benefits with the potential problems.