Seat Back Brace Question

[lateapex911]

So, let me boil this down if I can.
I CAN: Mount an FIA seat to FIA side or bottom mounts (if the seat was tested with the ones I've selected) and bolt those to my sheet metal floor.

But I can NOT weld a cross car tube or box section or two from my roll cage to the tunnel (In IT) and attach with proper grade hardware recaro sliders that have been in use in Grand Am cup and ALMS for years?

IF that's correct, who's doing the logic tests for the ruleswriters?

yea yea yea, I know, "It's based on the advice of legal counsel".

[Chip42]

Jake,

you CAN mount an FIA seat in ANY fashion you like OTHER than to stock sliders. so the recaro etc... double locking bits ARE OK per 9.3.41.

you CAN have extensions from your cage to the tunnel to use for a seat mount - see 9.3.41, paragraph 2. even in IT/SS etc...

the only restriction for FIA seats (other than a back brace must be used with stock sliders) is that the bolts to the seat go into the homologated holes (lateral or lower) as some seats have both but only were homologated with one.

the problems some of us have with the rules are

1 - there are no minimum standards for propper mounting (thus the brackets pop-riveted to the floor example which is completely legal)

2 - aftermarket runners MIGHT be just as unsafe as stock, as there is no homologation standard for or list of approved sliding mounts. so some aftermarket, non race worthy part could be passed as it is not stock. This does not include most/all of those made by the major FIA homologated seat suppliers (OMP, sparco, racetech, etc...) but there's still no objective standard other than "not stock".

[Russ Myers]

how can stock be considered unsafe when they are crash tested to nhtsa and dot standards. I crashed a fiesta with a stock seat at road atlanta and had no problems what so ever.

Russ

[joeg]

Russ--Yes you are probably correct. I have no clue why a modern OEM seat would not work well in a race car (other than for its weight).

[seckerich]

And the fact that the factory seat mounts were attached to a seat structure that was engineered to give it extra strength. Most are single locking, and not full captive. Now you are attaching it to a carbon, fiberglass, etc. seat without that steel frame and it will not perform the same way. Not safe.

[lateapex911]

Jake,

you CAN mount an FIA seat in ANY fashion you like OTHER than to stock sliders. so the recaro etc... double locking bits ARE OK per 9.3.41.

OK, reading the GCR rule, it says "supports must be of the type listed on FIA tech list.....".
So, am I correct in deducing that I can use ANY support in ANY way, as long as I use the right type...side or lower as listed? And i can mount those to any slider other than the stock sliders or heck I can glue them to the floor with bubble gum, again, as long as I don't involve stock sliders, unless THEY are FIA listed as such??

you CAN have extensions from your cage to the tunnel to use for a seat mount - see 9.3.41, paragraph 2. even in IT/SS etc...

Thanks, I missed the new section on my first run though the new GCR.

the only restriction for FIA seats (other than a back brace must be used with stock sliders) is that the bolts to the seat go into the homologated holes (lateral or lower) as some seats have both but only were homologated with one.

the problems some of us have with the rules are

1 - there are no minimum standards for propper mounting (thus the brackets pop-riveted to the floor example which is completely legal)

2 - aftermarket runners MIGHT be just as unsafe as stock, as there is no homologation standard for or list of approved sliding mounts. so some aftermarket, non race worthy part could be passed as it is not stock. This does not include most/all of those made by the major FIA homologated seat suppliers (OMP, sparco, racetech, etc...) but there's still no objective standard other than "not stock".

OK, I'm with you...
Another Head and Neck rule.
Again, to those reading who write the rules, you have to see how when we read these rules, and obvious limits are placed on one aspect of a system, yet the rest of the system is 'free', it makes placing ANY limits on any part of the system look, well, stupid. In this case it's "Must have a backbrace, can't use stock sliders, etc". but no mention of actual attachment, so, ergo it all CAN bolt to the floor using spit....it just makes little sense.

And sure, you can say, "Well, you're racers, you know how to properly mount a seat...". Yup, I do, but I also know how to use the best head and neck restraint, and I can get out of it in a nano second even though it requires more than one release, yet you won't let me use that one, I have to use an inferior one....so lets not play the "you're smart enough to figure stuff out" card.

[seckerich]

There is also no "FIA" or any other spec for the required back brace. Even if required it can be of creative design so as not to endanger the drivers spine.

[Chip42]

it CAN be, but the easy button is one of the IO port type spears. lots of people who race would never assume something sold as safety equipment could actually make them less safe.

like using pipe insulation / pool noodles instead of energy absorbing, fire retardant roll bar padding. it can actually make a bad situation worse.

rules makers need to either LET people be unsafe, or enforce stuff that actually leads to safety.

[Simon T.]

I created a monster. lol

Good info in here!

[Bremsen]

Ok, see fire....have gas....will throw.

Both the SCCA and NASA rule books on using the FIA seat say they must be mounted in accordance with the FIA standard. My question is regarding the harness mount as the FIA standard/test procedure states the seat back must be a minimum of 150mm from the cage and harness must be mounted between 200-250mm from the seat back (2" window?). Am I to understand that if that dimension cannot be met due to cage design/seat positioning that a back brace of some sort must be used with the FIA seat? Or is that only for the homologation test procedure?

-Ryan