Rental Costs

[Simon T.]

I am going to be renting out my extra seats for enduros this year and need an idea on costs so am asking what YOU would pay for a seat in the car. I have some ideas, but I'd like to see if I'm too low or too high.

The car is a Neon ACR, I have no track time for the car as an IT car as it has only ran as an SSC car. The engine was rebuilt not that long ago with no race mileage just some autocross and one track day. The suspension currently is the typical ACR package which is adjustable Konis, Mopar springs, sway bars, and all new bushings.

My home track is Road Atlanta, it will cost me $30 to get it there towing it.

So just curious, what is a good price for say 3 hour races, 8 hour, etc. The longest race I'm looking at is the 8 hour with NASA in December. I'd like to do the VIR 13 hour if I had the funding.

I want the rental cost to include tires, brakes, etc. It's very easy on brakes and tires, we will probably be using BFGoodrich R1s.

Also how much seat time do renting drivers want, I know seat time is everything, but realistically in a three hour enduro with just two drivers is an hour and a half each worth the cost of renting?

I have a chance to race with the PBOC at Road Atlanta at the end of the month, there is a three hour enduro on Friday including a 30 minute practice and 30 minute qualifying before the race. It would be my first race, giving me a PBOC license, I don't have any other license yet. I missed the double school with SCCA at Roebling due to my car needing a bit more and some unexpected medical expenses for our chinchilla.

[lateapex911]

Simon, I'm going to suggest that you might want to get a lic and a few races under your belt first. See how the car does in shorter races, get a good handle on how it will handle being driven HARD. Track what breaks, what wears, what needs replacing. Renters do NOT want a car that they don't get to drive because a bearing failed. Good prep is HUGE.

Second, there's a significant learning curve to enduros. You'll need equipment, and crew to man that equipment. That crew should be paid, fed and housed. Renters usually look for a chance to win, (or contend) and not having the team support/well prepped car, etc means they won't see that chance.

Now you CAN do it on a shoestring, but...failure is more likely.

Kirk knows all the numbers, and, not coincidentally, a ride in his car is not on the cheaper side of things. That's because he understands REAL accounting.
In other words, every time your car goes on track, you are wearing it out. You'll need brakes, a transmission, new shocks, sparkplugs airfilters, oil, oil filters and a rebuild for the engine because the car is being used. You have to charge for that..not just the gas and tires.
If you end up NOT charging correctly for that, and YOU pay for all that stuff later, you just performed a charity to others who used up your car.

I'm guessing the idea is to defray your costs of ownership, so figuring out your true costs* first will tell you how much you have to charge.
Now, whether that aligns with what people WILL pay, is another story.

* your true costs will ALWAYS be higher than you think. That 25 dollar case of oil? You paid sales tax on that. So it's not $25. People forget this stuff, they don't account for all the things that get used up. Brakecleaner, tools, paper towels, grease, worn out and broken jacks...it all adds up, and people are invariably wrong with their numbers. Also, certain cars are much sturdier and cheaper machines to run. It's no coincidence that Miatas are the most popular rental ride...

[Simon T.]

Simon, I'm going to suggest that you might want to get a lic and a few races under your belt first. See how the car does in shorter races, get a good handle on how it will handle being driven HARD. Track what breaks, what wears, what needs replacing. Renters do NOT want a car that they don't get to drive because a bearing failed. Good prep is HUGE.

Second, there's a significant learning curve to enduros. You'll need equipment, and crew to man that equipment. That crew should be paid, fed and housed. Renters usually look for a chance to win, (or contend) and not having the team support/well prepped car, etc means they won't see that chance.

Now you CAN do it on a shoestring, but...failure is more likely.

Kirk knows all the numbers, and, not coincidentally, a ride in his car is not on the cheaper side of things. That's because he understands REAL accounting.
In other words, every time your car goes on track, you are wearing it out. You'll need brakes, a transmission, new shocks, sparkplugs airfilters, oil, oil filters and a rebuild for the engine because the car is being used. You have to charge for that..not just the gas and tires.
If you end up NOT charging correctly for that, and YOU pay for all that stuff later, you just performed a charity to others who used up your car.

I'm guessing the idea is to defray your costs of ownership, so figuring out your true costs* first will tell you how much you have to charge.
Now, whether that aligns with what people WILL pay, is another story.

* your true costs will ALWAYS be higher than you think. That 25 dollar case of oil? You paid sales tax on that. So it's not $25. People forget this stuff, they don't account for all the things that get used up. Brakecleaner, tools, paper towels, grease, worn out and broken jacks...it all adds up, and people are invariably wrong with their numbers. Also, certain cars are much sturdier and cheaper machines to run. It's no coincidence that Miatas are the most popular rental ride...

Great information and thank you!

I do plan on racing it before renting it, I just mentioned the PBOC race as an example of seat time.

I also have a crew of guys and a few girls entirely willing to work for food (I guess that's the benefit of being young, we're all broke and hungry ).

All great points about the true costs. I'll keep all of that in mind. Luckily running a Neon is VERY cheap for spare parts. Like you said though I will definitely be running the car myself first, then another driver who will be driving with me in some enduros, him and I will do an enduro or two to get it all sorted out so when a paying driver does come we will be good to go. Obviously a season doesn't have much time to really do all of that but my biggest goal is to at the very least run strongly at the NASA 8 hour. I've always been a huge fan of endurance racing.

Like I said though, really good points, I really have not put much thought into the true wear and tear it's causing and that I will end up paying for it SOMETIME.

[Cobrar05]

make it a V8 car like mine and then you are into some real money.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Simon,

No disrespect intended...I love the initiative, but if you have to rent out your car to afford racing, you can't afford racing and you shouldn't do it.

An enduro rental needs to have NEW everything (hubs, rotors, pads, fluids, maybe clutch, tires, etc) and you need to keep on top of those things so you minimize the chance of a mechanical DNF. You also need to have spares, enough spares to get that car back on track WHEN (not if) an incident occures. Suspension, transmission, ECU, etc. You will need rain tires too. You will need a strong contract. You will need to set expectations. Feel the pain yet?

Rental rides that actually MAKE money, require drivers who are willing to pay real money for a seat. With that money comes expectations about service levels - and I am not sure you are ready for what that really means. It takes time to develop a good program. Trust me.

It's just really a HUGE risk for not much gain.

[lateapex911]

Yea, Andy hit it: Pleasing customers is dependent on setting, then meeting or exceeding expectations.

Now, Simon might be looking at another angle, the 'rent to buddies' angle, and he might just want to make sure he's covered. But, even so, it's all about setting expectations, covering your own ass, and when money changes hands, people get, you know, 'different'.