Rental Costs

[gran racing]

Simon, I kinda like where you're going with this and there are ways to make it work. A huge part of what you need to do with anyone is manage expectations, be very open with the level of prep and support you're talking about, then put all of that into writing along with crash damage liablity, labor costs, and other CYA things. Andy is absolutely right from the perspective of doing this as a true rental business, but I do not see you taking this down that path.

and a few girls

THIS is your key to success!!! Bring hot girls to help work on the car, be friendly to renters, and poof, jackpot - there you have it.

[Knestis]

Short, easy math answer...

It got to the point where was charging $2500/seat for 1/4 of a the VIR 13 or similar race, and my seat was costing me substantially more than that. I was subsidizing others' racing, which worked OK when the economy was good and it was a sellers' market. Now? Not so much.

Now, to be fair, I was paying a real pro shop (RGM in my sig line) to do the preparation. The car was RIGHT but it cost actual money.

Kirk (who will be a renter for enduros this year)

[Simon T.]

Simon, I kinda like where you're going with this and there are ways to make it work. A huge part of what you need to do with anyone is manage expectations, be very open with the level of prep and support you're talking about, then put all of that into writing along with crash damage liablity, labor costs, and other CYA things. Andy is absolutely right from the perspective of doing this as a true rental business, but I do not see you taking this down that path.



THIS is your key to success!!! Bring hot girls to help work on the car, be friendly to renters, and poof, jackpot - there you have it.

I can bring girls. Nothing like making a renting driver feel awesome then sitting in a mid pack Neon with an umbrella girl standing over him.

Short, easy math answer...

It got to the point where was charging $2500/seat for 1/4 of a the VIR 13 or similar race, and my seat was costing me substantially more than that. I was subsidizing others' racing, which worked OK when the economy was good and it was a sellers' market. Now? Not so much.

Now, to be fair, I was paying a real pro shop (RGM in my sig line) to do the preparation. The car was RIGHT but it cost actual money.

Kirk (who will be a renter for enduros this year)

I've done so much adding up and trying to budget what my car will really cost to run. Like you said though your car is a much better prepared than mine, so my costs would be significantly less, I had $1000 or so in mind for the NASA 8 hour enduro and thought that may be too high for my car, I'm really not sure though and probably won't until I actually race it. The track day I did in it was more of a "what needs to be done" than a driving hard day.

Kirk (who will be a renter for enduros this year)

Are you saying you will be renting your car out still or looking for a car to rent? I know of a slow IT Neon with hot grid girls and windshield cleaners for rent later this year.

[Andy Bettencourt]

I've done so much adding up and trying to budget what my car will really cost to run. Like you said though your car is a much better prepared than mine, so my costs would be significantly less, I had $1000 or so in mind for the NASA 8 hour enduro and thought that may be too high for my car, I'm really not sure though and probably won't until I actually race it. The track day I did in it was more of a "what needs to be done" than a driving hard day.

So show us the math here. Are you saying that you think your 'cost' will be $1000 for the NASA 8 hour?

Are you starting with new hubs, pads and rotors? How many tires are you going to go through? New tires or take offs? One spin and they are corded. Extras? Full fluids before AND after a race like that...

Slap your spreadshet up here and we will learn-ya the REAL costs....

And BTW, why are you considering renting? What is the end game?

[lateapex911]

I would ASSume (LOL) he's talking about charging 1000 per seat.
if you're using Hoosier, you're going to go through a set of fronts every 2.37 hours, 150 per tire x 6, plus mounting, hoping the rears go the whole way is $1000, I'd imagine, and just gas at $3.50 a gallon (if going cheap unleaded)
at an average speed of 75, (x 8 hrs), means 600 miles, /10MPG= 60 gallons, or a bit over $210, plus a set of pads ($100), an oil change ($40) so, right there you're up to an easy $1350, and that's not including hubs discs and the like (because I have no clue how much they cost$).
All up though it's an easy couple grand without thinking very hard.

[Simon T.]

So show us the math here. Are you saying that you think your 'cost' will be $1000 for the NASA 8 hour?

Are you starting with new hubs, pads and rotors? How many tires are you going to go through? New tires or take offs? One spin and they are corded. Extras? Full fluids before AND after a race like that...

Slap your spreadshet up here and we will learn-ya the REAL costs....

And BTW, why are you considering renting? What is the end game?

No, my cost would be over $1000 especially after the entry fee, food, gas to get there and home, etc.

Here is some pricing I came up with:

-Rotors: $20.00 each...BUT...these are for Autozone specials, I'll need to see if they are good enough with race pads. I used them at a track day and they had no issues at all but like I said I wasn't pushing hard at all.
-Pads: $100 for all four at my current "deal."
-I haven't calculated hubs yet, they're brand new right now.
-Tires: Free, a co-driver is providing tires for enduros instead of money. I will have two mounted sets and one set of rains. I get tire mounting done for free from a local shop.
-Oil and fluids before every event I calculated $50.00.
-Fuel is still unknown, see below. I just put $300.00 though as a starting point.
-My "crew" is getting paid with food and drinks (non alcohol until the race is over of course) so I just figured $75-100 to feed them all, that's probably way too high but I like to over estimate some things.
-Depending on the clutch condition I'd change it before an 8 hour enduro. More than likely I WOULD just to be safe. A new clutch is $200.00. Installation is free I can do it myself.
-I'd also like to do a timing belt change and check other belts before a long enduro. $100 would cover the parts and even a new water pump if needed. I can do all that myself.

I have misc. spare parts for the car, I guess if I really wanted to make a profit I'd have to add some of what I spend on spares into rental costs but...I'd like to get a complete spare engine and a spare transmission, neither of which I have but both can be had fairly cheap, there are loads of Neons in local junk yards.

The reason I am renting is to help cover enduro costs really. If I could make a few bucks doing it, sweet, but that's not really my goal here. If someone came with spare parts for the car or provided something else, I wouldn't have a problem, such as my friend providing tires, that's fine with me I'm not looking to make renting my car a career.

I would ASSume (LOL) he's talking about charging 1000 per seat.
if you're using Hoosier, you're going to go through a set of fronts every 2.37 hours, 150 per tire x 6, plus mounting, hoping the rears go the whole way is $1000, I'd imagine, and just gas at $3.50 a gallon (if going cheap unleaded)
at an average speed of 75, (x 8 hrs), means 600 miles, /10MPG= 60 gallons, or a bit over $210, plus a set of pads ($100), an oil change ($40) so, right there you're up to an easy $1350, and that's not including hubs discs and the like (because I have no clue how much they cost$).
All up though it's an easy couple grand without thinking very hard.

We will be using R1s, so I'm not sure of their distance. That's a scary thought about the Hoosiers though. We talked about rotating at a certain point since the rears probably won't be that worn out.

Fuel wise I run 93 unleaded in the car. I'll also have to see what type of fuel mileage I get here, in November I used about a tank and a half for two hours of track time, but had a clogged cat from hell so that may change the MPG.

[JLawton]

I think going out just to have fun with some buddies is a great idea. You need to know your cost but I wouldn't get bogged down with too much detail if just doing it for fun with friends. I think the key is getting in writting what the agreement is on damage. It's some great seat time and you will learn a lot. If you have a good co-driver and a data acquisition system and can be a HUGE benefit for a new driver to compare data from the same car

Personally, if I was going to do an 3 enduro with friends I would just charge them tires and get a damage agreement.

I enjoy the enduros because of the "team" atmosphere. Just DO IT!!

[lateapex911]

Simon, I kinda like where you're going with this and there are ways to make it work. A huge part of what you need to do with anyone is manage expectations, be very open with the level of prep and support you're talking about, then put all of that into writing along with crash damage liablity, labor costs, and other CYA things. Andy is absolutely right from the perspective of doing this as a true rental business, but I do not see you taking this down that path.



THIS is your key to success!!! Bring scantily clad, flirty hot girls to help work on the car, be friendly to renters, and poof, jackpot - there you have it.

Fixored. FlatOut should read this.
hahahaha

[gran racing]

Oh come on, that was so implied.

Playboy Rentals.....

[Cobrar05]

my rule of thumb. i am bringing the car and taking care that its properly prepared. i am hauling it to the race track. i am providing whatever personel to do a given event.
i am responsible that the car be properly teched and legal.

with that in mind it seems fair to ask the other driver(s) to pay for the actual usage expenses. the consumables(tires, brakes, fuel) and the entry fees. i am still the one taking on the costs of all the wear and tear on the equipment in the end.

this is assuming I am driving. doesnt that seem fair?

[Matt93SE]

Seems more than fair to me since all of the intangibles (engine, clutch, transmission, suspension wear) aren't factored in and are pretty significant on a front-running car.