Rd Atl Dbl National, March 18-20, 2011

[Butch Kummer]

Just got word from Road Atlanta that they were able to work things out, so there IS at test day on Thursday, March 17!

There is no pre-Registration for the Test Day but we'll post more Test Day info at www.AtlantaSCCA.org shortly.

Butch

= = = = =

Proposed schedule (registration should be up on MSR in early February):

Group 1 - EP, FP, GTL, HP, SRF (split start for SRF)
Group 2 - SM
Group 3 - AS, GT1, GT2, GT3, STO, T1
Group 4 - CSR, DSR, FA, FB, FE, FM
Group 5 - SSB, SSC, STU, T2, T3
Group 6 - F5, FC, FF, FV, S2
Group 7 - ECR & Pro-IT

Thu, March 17
. gates open at 5:00 PM, move in until 9:00 PM

Fri, March 18
. consecutive 25 minute qualifying for Sat race
. 30 minute Group 7 qualifying
. consecutive 25 minute qualifying for Sun race

Sat, March 19
. consecutive 10 minute qualifying for Sat race
. 20 minute Group 7 qualifying
. 18 lap National races for Groups 1-2
. lunch break
. 18 lap National races for Groups 3-6
. 90 minute Group 7 race (Pro-IT called at 45 minutes)

Sun, March 20
. consecutive 10 minute qualifying for Sun race
. PDX sessions during county-mandated Quiet Time
. 18 lap National races for Groups 1-6

I monitor this site so let me know if you have any questions.

[Simon T.]

Oooooo. ECR that weekend. I hope I'm licensed by then.

[bhudson]

Butch - Please explain the Pro IT/ECR race. You can PM me if you wish, or just send me an email. You know my address.

[seckerich]

I can fill you in a little Bob. It was approved at Jekyll to allow other series races to be run inside an ECR. Many regions were not doing the ECR because of the lack of track time available in their schedules. This would allow the regions to run a Pro IT, CCPS, etc on track at the same time as the ECR and then bring them in after they reach the distance of the shorter race and the rest of the ECR cars just continue for the ECR race distance. Win - win because they both get included in the schedule. We will be looking at this format to include ECR and CCPS in the future.

[GKR_17]

Strange. So if you run the ECR can you get points in both events?

[JeffYoung]

Grafton, not sure how that would be possible with the pit stop rules being different.

[Butch Kummer]

Different? Yes. Strange? Maybe so.

I need to run the budget numbers, but for those that want to run both I'm thinking we'll offer it with a decent discount: ECR entry fee + 50% of the Pro-IT fee (the part that goes to prize money) + maybe $50. We also need to work out some details, mainly about Impound when a Pro-IT winner is still on the track running the ECR, but I think we can figure that out.

If we wanted to run an ECR as part of the Double National weekend the only way to make it work was to run it on Friday afternoon. This way we're taking two less-than-fully-subscribed series and putting them on the track at the same time. Personally I think this is a more palatable option, but I'm open to suggestions otherwise.

[Butch Kummer]

Grafton, not sure how that would be possible with the pit stop rules being different.

CCPS requires a two-minute pit stop, but Pro-IT doesn't require any. Run the first 45 minutes (the Pro-IT), stop at 46+ minutes to satisfy the ECR rule, then continue to the checkers.

[JeffYoung]

Got it. And I do think it is a good idea, BUT I don't see how it will work for CCPS/ECR.

[adoyle]

Butch, I think this a worth trying. I appericiate thinking outside the box and offering an event with a different format. I know some people can't due change. Because of the format with the double National and enduro, it is an event that our team may bring a couple of cars too. The reason I might not is because of my scedule and not the event. Again, I applaude you for doing something different. There are other racing opportunities, and if SCCA does not change and innovate we will continue to loose competitors.

[GKR_17]

Got it. And I do think it is a good idea, BUT I don't see how it will work for CCPS/ECR.

I think it could work for a combined CCPS/ECR, but with the different pit rules the racer would be at a disadvantage in at least one. I have not run in the CCPS, so correct me if I'm wrong.

ECR requires (1) five minute pit stop (and allows fueling), typical races are 90 minutes
CCPS requires (1) two minute stop (and no fueling), typical races are 45 minutes

So in theory a competitor could run the ECR, have a five minute stop (with no fuel added) in the first half of the race and meet the rules for both events. That would mean and extra 3 minutes in the pits for the CCPS finish though.

Alternatively, the racer could pit for 2 minutes in the first 45, and then five more sometime later. Basically lose one lap for the ECR.

Neither is really a great idea, but there are some folks who run both series, and it's often better in points to finish a lap down than not enter at all.

[TomL]

There was a bit of discussion about how to handle the different pit stop rules between ECR and CCPS at the Jekyll meeting. There are several options. Grafton's option (a 5 minute, no fueling pit stop) wouldn't need a rule change, but penalizes your CCPS finish and wouldn't work for someone who couldn't make 1.5 hours without fuel.

A minor rule change in ECR and/or CCPS rules could eliminate nearly all the problems. Possible tweaks are: 1) Change CCPS rules to also require a five minute stop and allow fueling. Then everyone would have the same pit time, with the only (very minor) disparity being that a double-dipper would have to make his pit stop in the first half of the race, while the ECR-only person could do it anytime. 2) Change ECR rules to a 2-minute stop. With fueling and driver changes, this would probably be a bad idea. 3) Require both an ECR and CCPS stop (i.e., a 2-minute, no fuel stop in the first half and a 5 minute stop any time - in the second half, obviously). Any of these changes would only need to apply in combined ECR/CCPS races, so each series would retain their regular rules for stand alone events.

I think the first option makes the most sense. As for option 2, I don't think that trying to rush a driver change and refuel into two minutes is something we ought to do. The leisurely ECR pit stops have worked well for years - why change? I think the third option is overkill. There is no earthly reason to have two stops in a 90 minute race, except as a way to eliminate any disparities. And it still doesn't eliminate the first option's slight disparity of the double-dippers having to take their five-minute stop in the first half of the race, while ECR-onlies can do it any time.

[Mike Mackaman]

Steve, Butch, whoever else, the Pro-IT/Ecr is genius! Sure it double dips the competitors, but this should make everyone happy. As someone who used to be very fund limited and look for ways to maximize my finishes per entry fee, do you get credit for two finishes if you go the full distance?

Mike

[Butch Kummer]

As someone who used to be very fund limited and look for ways to maximize my finishes per entry fee, do you get credit for two finishes if you go the full distance?

Mike

There are separate sanction numbers for both the ECR and the Pro-IT, so anyone that signs up for both can get credit for two races towards keeping their license.

Registration should be open soon (we've gotten all approvals are now waiting on sanction numbers from Topeka). ECR only is $375, Pro-IT only is $275, "both" option is $550 (because of the Pro-IT prize money).

[Butch Kummer]

Just wanted to let you know the Supps, Schedule, and Registration links are now available at www.AtlantaSCCA.org.

Although they are working to at least make the afternoon avilable for testing, at this time Road Atlanta is not able to offer any test sessions on Thursday (3/17). We'll update the Atlanta Region website if that changes, but you can also contact Road Atlanta directly.

It has minimal impact (pun intended) on you guys, but we also swapped groups 2 & 3 to make it easier for the SM guys to double/triple-dip.

See y'all at the track...

[chuck baader]

Butch, schedule shows Pro-It as group 8, but registration shows is as group 1. Clarification, please. Chuck

[Butch Kummer]

The schedule is correct (Group 8, races Saturday afternoon). There are other problems with the Registration List so I'll add this one to the list.

Registration List should now be correct. Please let me know if you find something else amiss...

[chuck baader]

Butch, the only problem I see is the inability to practice/bed brakes since this is basically the first race of the season. Can't do this during the qualifying session. Suggestions, please...or...hardship practice allowance? Chuck

[Simon T.]

Oooooo. ECR that weekend. I hope I'm licensed by then.

High hopes...you fail!

I'll be there doing the PDX.

[Butch Kummer]

Butch, the only problem I see is the inability to practice/bed brakes since this is basically the first race of the season. Can't do this during the qualifying session. Suggestions, please...or...hardship practice allowance? Chuck

You've got two qualifying sessions - 30 minutes on Friday and 20 minutes on Saturday. As of this afternoon Road Atlanta has NOT given up on getting at least a partial day on Thursday for testing.

If none of that works out you can always terrorize your neighbors.