Rd Atl Dbl National, March 18-20, 2011

[Butch Kummer]

Just got word from Road Atlanta that they were able to work things out, so there IS at test day on Thursday, March 17!

There is no pre-Registration for the Test Day but we'll post more Test Day info at www.AtlantaSCCA.org shortly.

[pitbull113]

are there really enough spec miatas to warrant their own run group? seems like they could be combined with other classes and have 6 groups like last year plus an enduro

[Rabbit07]

Just got word from Road Atlanta that they were able to work things out, so there IS at test day on Thursday, March 17!

There is no pre-Registration for the Test Day but we'll post more Test Day info at www.AtlantaSCCA.org shortly.

Butch,

For a guy who is bringing a brand new build to shake down 750 miles from home, this is great news!

Thanks!

[Butch Kummer]

are there really enough spec miatas to warrant their own run group? seems like they could be combined with other classes and have 6 groups like last year plus an enduro

Short answer - yes. We've averaged 26.3 SM cars at this National over the past three years.

Longer answer - who would you like to put with them? Other cars (SSB & SSC instance) run similar lap times but do it in very different ways. Deserved or not, there's also the "Smash Miata" perception at play (see Turn 1 on Sunday at Sebring Double National in January). Giving SM a separate run group not only attracts more SM drivers but also is appealing to those that are normally grouped with them at other region's events. Finally, splitting SM & STU into separate groups encourages double-dipping from guys that want additional track time.

And you can't compare this event to our March car counts in the past (averaging 151.7 National cars over the last three years) because this is the first year we've done a Double National. I'm thinking we'll have 180-200 cars, which pretty much demands six National run groups to fit everybody on the track.

And you have an ECR on Saturday, so what's the concern?

[SPiFF]

Longer answer - who would you like to put with them?

The obvious answer is ``anyone but "me"``!!

[Butch Kummer]

The obvious answer is ``anyone but "me"``!!

Which is the same answer to the question, "We've got too many classes, so which ones should we consolidate?"

[pitbull113]

Butch I guess my main concern it seems like the IT guys are getting the short end of the stick. I can either run the Pro IT race or the enduro with a payout for my half way finish. But I'm really not getting track time for both. I realize my reg fee will be cut for running both but I'd like to run both races seperately. I'm also concerned that if I want to run just the Pro IT race half way thru the enduro my race is over,I have no cool down lap (not a big deal) but I and a bunch of other Pro IT racers have to get to the pits safely all at the same time while the enduro is still going on. Now honestly I don't know the layout of road atlanta so this might not be a problem but at some tracks like the sebring long course this would be dangerous. Also if I'm running just the PRO IT race I have to deal with other cars that aren't in my race.

As far as the wreck at the sebring national goes that would not have happened if there were a true split start instead of telling the sm front row to lay back (which they didn't). Doesn't seem right that every other class has to deal with out of class cars in their race except the sm guys.

[Butch Kummer]

Butch I guess my main concern it seems like the IT guys are getting the short end of the stick. ...

Doesn't seem right that every other class has to deal with out of class cars in their race except the sm guys.

Steve - remember that it IS primarily a (Double) National weekend. In the past we've run Pro-IT (and now ECR) to help make ends meet but we've also been subjected to complaints from the National drivers about having to "share track time" with IT drivers. Those complaints usually go away when I explain what entry fees would be without the IT guys there, but we still get them from time to time.

The cool-down lap for the Pro-IT cars is the biggest concern I have about the combination ECR/Pro-IT experiment but it allows us to run both events on Saturday instead of having to run one on Friday afternoon (which was my original plan). I don't know how it will work but I know the N-club does it successfully and I'm confident their drivers aren't any smarter and/or more talented than ours.

I agree the SM/T3 deal at Sebring could have been avoided with a true split start or with some common sense displayed by the front row of the SM group. One is a reasonable expectation, the other is not.

As far as combining SM with other classes, I'm open to suggestions for classes that are willing to do so (even with a split start which gets shot to hell during a FCY). I'm expecting upwards of 40 SMs that weekend on a track that allows a maximum of 67. It's way back at the beginning of this thread, but the current groups are:

1 - EP, FP, GTL, HP, SRF (SRF split start)
2 - SM
3 - AS, GT1, GT2, GT3, STO, T1
4 - CSR, DSR, FA, FB, FE, FM
5 - SSB, SSC, STU, T2, T3
6 - F5, FC, FF, FV, S2
7/8 - Pro-IT & ECR

Oh yes - and based on historical averages I'm thinking we'll have 20 or so Pro-IT cars and about the same number of ECR cars.

How would YOU do it if you were in charge?

[pitbull113]

I guess you can't make everyone happy all the time. I guess the problem is trying to fit too much in one weekend, but I realize this helps keep the reg. fees down. I did not know your expecting 40 spec miatas I was going by last years numbers which were closer to 25 which is why I asked if they really needed their own run group. But as you stated this is a double national unlike last years single. Only 20 IT cars and 20 enduro? Guys we need to represent better!! I guess I'm spoiled down here in CFR. 20 cars in ITA alone for most events. Not knowing all the numbers involved I could in no way come up with something better. In fact even knowing the numbers I probably couldn't which is why I don't envy you or any of the other people who do what you do so others can race.

[R2 Racing]

Will be signing up for the double National in my FP Integra later today. Can't wait!

Chuck - You running the Pro IT or the ECR?

[Butch Kummer]

I guess you can't make everyone happy all the time. I guess the problem is trying to fit too much in one weekend, but I realize this helps keep the reg. fees down. I did not know your expecting 40 spec miatas I was going by last years numbers which were closer to 25 which is why I asked if they really needed their own run group. But as you stated this is a double national unlike last years single. Only 20 IT cars and 20 enduro? Guys we need to represent better!! I guess I'm spoiled down here in CFR. 20 cars in ITA alone for most events. Not knowing all the numbers involved I could in no way come up with something better. In fact even knowing the numbers I probably couldn't which is why I don't envy you or any of the other people who do what you do so others can race.

Rather than "trying to fit too much" I believe we're "trying to fit as much as possible" into each weekend. There certainly are those that want dedicated sessions for just their class, but you need to be willing to pay for that. Pro F2000 and (new for 2011) Pro F1600 have done just that for FC and FF drivers that tired of the "alphabet soup" of the typical SCCA weekend and they've been very successful to date. I also believe their entry fees are approaching $1000 per weekend if they're not over that already.

The GCR requires that we offer a minimum of 45 minutes practice/qualifying time for a single National weekend and a combined 70 minutes for a Double National. The fees to National are also higher for a National weekend, so that's why many regions (including CFR) have started combining Enduros or other "one-off" groups with their National weekends while other regions have stopped hosting Nationals altogether. Atlanta Region and Road Atlanta have strong ties to the Runoffs, so we're doing as much as possible to help National racing be successful in our area.

Is SCCA trying to be too much to too many (i.e. - do we have too many classes?)Maybe so, but I have no (or at least limited) control over that so I'll work within the rules as currently dictated. One concept I floated in jest but which has some merit is to allocate equal portions of the weekend's cost to each run group. As an example, let's say we need to make $60,000 per weekend to keep the lights on so if we have six run groups we charge each group $10,000. If you have fifty cars in your groups that's $200 each, but if you only have ten... well, you do the math.

I do believe that we (as race organizers) are better off explaining why decisions are made the way they are and I'm always open to suggestions on how we can offer a better product. More than once I've tried new ideas or changed the make-up and/or order of run groups based on input I've gotten from this and other forums I participate in. One thing I hope you'll NEVER hear me say is, "But we've never done it that way before!"

See y'all at the track...

[srt4racing]

Butch
I want to again thank you for taking my call today, and just so you know the fact that you are doing a dbl NAT & and ECR is THE reason we are working to make the event with two cars.
Thank you again for thinking outside the box for our club, hoping the stars align and to see you on the track

[chuck baader]

Butch, when will the schedule be updated to show the practice day? Thanks, Chuck

[Butch Kummer]

Butch, when will the schedule be updated to show the practice day? Thanks, Chuck

Do you need me to check your tire pressures as well, Chuck?

http://www.roadatlanta.com/ev_scca/2...stSchedule.pdf

[chuck baader]

Could you please, Butch. All my friends are using walkers and wheel chairs and have a hard time with the hill.Chuck

[Butch Kummer]

Just a reminder that early registration for the March 18-20 Double National / ECR / Pro-IT / PDX weekend at Road Atlanta closes at noon EST on Monday, March 14. I'll also remind you that funds will not be deposited until after the event and refunds are automatic for no-shows, so if you're even thinking about attending there's absolutely no financial risk to going ahead and registering now.

Links to the Supps, Schedule, Test Day info and registration system (there's no pre-registration for Thursday's Test Day) can be found at www.AtlantaSCCA.org.

See y'all at the track...

[chuck baader]

Kevin, missed your question....yes, Pro-IT...bring your "A" car and we can play. Chuck

[tom_sprecher]

It looks like the weather will be beautiful for the event. 77 for the high and sunny.

If you plan to be there don't forget registration closes at noon EST on Monday, March 14. That's tomorrow.

[chuck baader]

I am really disappointed at the turn out in Pro-IT...great weather, great track, why? Chuck