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Thread: Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    6

    Default Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Ok im going to start my first build. I have a 88 Mustang with a 2.3l. What would be a good class to be put in? Also is it legal to do engine swaps in the IT class?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    IT.com "First Loser" Greensboro, NC USA
    Posts
    8,607

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    Step 1 - Download and read the rules. Google "SCCA GCR"

    Step 2 - Start hanging out with other IT drivers, go look at some cars, and go to some races

    Step 3 - Ignore half of what you learn from Step 2; go back to Step 1

    Step 4 - Realize that you're doing it bass-ackwards and buy a car that's already built - statistics say that you won't do this but it's worth a try to suggest it...

    The short answer to your questions are "ITB" and "sort of." You can use any engine, retaining the entire long block as an assembly, from any of the Mustangs listed on the "spec line" for the car in the Improved Touring Competition Specifications.

    You're actually looking at one of the cars in the book for which there are the most options available, under what we call the "update-backdate rule." I personally think that the entire lifespan of 4-cylinder Mustangs should be broken into a couple of separate spec lines but it's not current like that.

    It's actually a good choice for the class, I think, and there's at least one guy who posts here who really knows about them. Maybe he'll sell you one.

    Good luck!

    K

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    6

    Default

    Are there any mods I could do to my car such as Cams, Intake, heads, etc?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    7,381

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knestis View Post
    Step 1 - Download and read the rules. Google "SCCA GCR"
    I'll make it even easier for you; select this link:

    http://cms.scca.com/documents/2011%2...%20version.pdf

    Hate to sound flippant, but READ THE RULES. Until you do that, you're lost and we can't help you.

    Here's the main page:

    http://www.scca.com

    ...and a link to a book to get you started:

    http://www.goaheadtakethewheel.com/

    GA

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,717

    Default

    You also might want to read the Ford section from the begining:

    https://improvedtouring.com...c&daysprune=-1

    As for Googling the GCR, I ususally search for "SCCA club racing cars and rules"
    STU BMW Z3 2.5liter

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Kingwood , Texas
    Posts
    153

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    Quote Originally Posted by ndavidson View Post
    Ok im going to start my first build. I have a 88 Mustang with a 2.3l. What would be a good class to be put in? Also is it legal to do engine swaps in the IT class?
    Since I'm new to IT , I feel your pain ... Here's what I did to plan and budget my build :

    Print the IT rules
    Go thru the rules line by line
    In the right margin , write down the mods you plan
    In the left margin , write down what you can't do
    From there , drop your build into a spreadsheet , price it out and prioritize
    Search this site for specific posts related to your car ( ITB Mustang )

    Then you'll be prepared to ask specific questions.

    I think you'll find that everybody is eager to help

    Welcome and have fun

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI, USA
    Posts
    1,599

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    Quote Originally Posted by ndavidson View Post
    Are there any mods I could do to my car such as Cams, Intake, heads, etc?
    In addition to what's already been said, some quick short answers. To the above: no. Not anything you've mentioned here.

    Furthermore, before you waste any time/money on that car... realize that the Mustang is rather an uncompetitive pig in ITB. Just understand that right now.

    You really need to get to the track, hang out with racers, see what's going on out there and what you can afford/what looks fun, then decide the best way to get one of those cars (which is buy used).

    IT, and in particular ITB, racing is an excellent place to start, and a lot of cheap fun. If you start off with a cheaper used reasonably-competitive car, it'll be a lot cheaper and more fun, and you can spend more time racing and less time fixing stuff that's broken or that you did wrong.

    Oh, and finally - welcome!
    Vaughan Scott
    Detroit Region #280052
    '79 924 #77 ITB
    #65 Hidari Firefly P2
    www.vaughanscott.com

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Spooner, WI
    Posts
    87

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    The temptation to build a car was very strong when I finally decided to get a car... ...I like to "build" stuff but I'm also frugal. But when starting out and you put pencil to paper; add up the time & cost to build vs. buy, the buy option comes out on top of the podium. I bought a very inexpensive car that required plenty of tinker-time to get ready for racing. The money I saved went for driver gear, tires, tires, tires and track time.

    There are many cars currently for sale here and elsewhere. These two examples, IMO are very good deals:

    https://improvedtouring.com...ad.php?t=26872

    https://improvedtouring.com...ad.php?t=28391

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Fredericksburg, VA
    Posts
    1,191

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    Quote Originally Posted by ndavidson View Post
    Are there any mods I could do to my car such as Cams, Intake, heads, etc?
    Actually, if you want to get into serious engine mods (or even engine swaps), there is another class you should look at - Super Touring, specifically STU. In that class cams are open (up to specified lift), and you can run any engine from the same manufacturer up to 3.0L. Just keep in mind, while your car would probably not be very competitive in ITB, it will likely be a LOT less competitive in STU unless you really know your shit.

    As everyone else has pointed out, you HAVE TO read the rules for the class (or classes) you're considering racing in. It is impossible to learn everything you need to know from this or any other forum. It would also be an excellent idea to read Dave's book (Go Ahead Take the Wheel - Greg posted a link to it)(and it's free btw), there is a wealth of information in it.

    As far as buying a car v. building; yes, from a dollars & cents standpoint it makes more sense to buy a built car. It might also make more sense if you're not very mechanically adept (and assuming the guy who built the car you're buying is), but it is also a fact that a lot of us just don't have $4k - $8k laying around to invest in a starter car, and already have a donor car in the garage. I built my car, and save for the cage installation I would probably do it again given the chance. But just know two things going in: 1. you WILL spend more $ to build a car than you would to buy a similarly prepped car, and 2. it will require a shitload of time, much more than you think. If you're ok with those two things, and are confident in your mechanic skills, then by all means start building.
    Earl R.
    240SX
    ITA/ST5

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Houston-ish
    Posts
    932

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    since I've just finished the same process as Earl above (ironically on another 240SX), I'll provide some short insight as to what it cost me to build the car...

    Car itself: $1400 (ebay- blown engine.)
    used OEM Engine: $250
    Tires: $350 (used Toyo R888)
    Roll cage: $3200 (very nice 6 pt cage by local race shop)
    Race seat: $300
    Fire system: $400
    total: $5900

    That's the ABSOLUTE CHEAPEST you can build a car unless you do the cage yourself.

    Since you already have the car, you can knock off $1650 from that price, but you're still looking at $4500 or so to get your car on the track in its current condition.

    you will still need another set of race tires, spare wheels, better brake pads, new rotors and brake lines, probably new calipers since the car is oooold. suspension? sky's the limit, even on an IT budget. Plan at least $1000 for a decent suspension.

    All said and done, I have about $12,000 into a car that still has a 100,000mile factory engine in it with a header and intake. zero internal mods. I have a ton more done to it now (suspension, brakes, sway bars, etc) but it's still no faster than a well driven ITS car.

    OR... You could take $4500 and go buy the Integra linked above and run side by side with my car. You'll have a MUCH faster and better handling car with a lot more go fast parts than if you were to build it yourself with new (or even used) parts.

    Keep in mind you'll still need a racing suit, helmet, shoes, gloves, etc and a driving school. Add $2000 to the tab right there.

    That will get you to your first race as a novice. the bill goes up from there.

    Im' not trying to discourage you or be pessimistic about things, but I'm being realistic about racing. Road racing is NOT cheap- even in a "cheap" car. A full weekend at the track will cost about $750 by the time you pay for entry fees, fuel, transportation to/from the track, food, and the most basic of wear and tear on the tire- tires and brakes. And that's assuming you don't break anything or flatspot a tire.

    Hope I didn't rain on your parade, but I don't want anyone to be disillusioned by "cheap" racing. Cheap is relative to all of us. What may be cheap racing compared to a STO or GT car is absurdly expensive to the young guy that thinks he's going to bring is daily driver/autocross out and road race.
    Last edited by Matt93SE; 01-10-2011 at 01:05 PM.
    Houston Region
    STU Nissan 240SX
    EProd RX7

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Grove City, OH, USA
    Posts
    1,449

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    To sum up what Matt just said, there's an old say in racing - it's easy to make a small fortune in racing, just start out with a large one!!!!!!!!
    Bill Stevens - Mbr # 103106
    BnS Racing www.bnsracing.net
    92 ITA Saturn
    83 ITB Shelby Dodge Charger
    Sponsors - Race-Keeper Data/Video Aquisition Systems www.race-keeper.com
    Simpson Performance Products - simpsonraceproducts.com

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