surge tanks?

[lateapex911]

Hey, I'm not throwing stones, I'm just add odds as to where it says you can modify a stock tank in any way. I know certain cars have issues with pickup, and starve, and must run 1/2 or 3/4 tanks to avoid that. Since gas has weight, carrying extra can certainly be a hindrance to acheiving minimum wieght, and many would see the extra weight as a competitive disadvantage.

If the tank has internal filters, and access, I suppose substituting a similar filter that has increased slosh resistance could be considered legal, by many.
But adding componentry in the tank that is non stock is verboten based on the IIDSYCYC foundational language in the ITCS/GCR. Now, you might find that dumb, but maybe the rules makers had reasons for it. Perhaps they felt that they didn't want folks mucking around with stock tanks, and that they preferred mods to be done within fuel cells, which are designed for such things from the outset. I don't know, I wasn't there when that rule was written. A letter to the ITAC requesting a rules allowance to add internal surge tanks to stock tanks would yield a response though, I bet.

[Chip42]

Jake, you're one of the reasons the category is what it is today - I respect you a lot. I know you're just looking after the rules.

I've got no real need other than the VW, and I want that to be someone else's problem ($2k takes it!). I'm not going to be writing anything on the subject to the CRB/ITAC (they get enough mail from me).

I just figure anything that doesn't create a safety issue and that is allowed in one legal configuration (added cell) should be allowed in the alternate configuration (stock tank) particularly if it allows a car to run at its minimum weight, especially when that is a difficulty due to fuel sloshing and a being "heavy" - in the end you're only talking about maybe 40#s of fuel so it's not that big of a problem. I get the part about not wanting to have modifications made to the stock tank, but as filters and pumps are already open, I just figure the addition or variation of things in that vein is no biggy.

[JLawton]

Again, I couldn't care less whether it's legal or not or whether you run one or not. But this is one of the things that people try to twist wording to suit their needs and justify it as being legal.

[seckerich]

Same people that will cry about this will tell you to build your intake heat shields as part of the "free" exhaust. Fuel pump is free and can have a surge tank attached to it under the same wording.Stock fuel pump is in most stock tanks. No big stretch. I just run a full tank so this is pure entertainment on why some go to STL/STU or will be going.

[StephenB]

Thanks for the replies everyone! One thing to that is clear to me is that this is grey to some but I will make sure that I stay within the rules as I know interpret them.

I plan on racing in some 12 Hr. races and doing more endurance racing with friends so I can't just fill it and be all set and still be competitive.

Thanks for the interpretations and advice!
Stephen Blethen

[Lael Cleland]

I just orded the 1 gal filter from summit for my rabbit!

[lateapex911]

I probably shouldn't point out that Steve "just fill it" Eckeridge wins most races he enters, LOL.

Hey, I'm just reading the rules. I might not agree with them...but I try and abide by them. Or I write and try to get them to make sense. I know my old tank in my RX-7 would NOT pull down as far as I would have liked, but, that's the wart I chose.....so, my options were: Cell, or change the rule, use a large filter console with a return line, or just drive.

I chose "just drive". But the tank rusted from the inside, and the cell ended up being cheaper than a new stock tank.
I could have solved the issue though and been within the rules via filter consoles, etc.

MOST of the gripes I hear in the rules have solutions. Things like jacking points and so on. But some people either don't think creatively, or get a chip on their shoulder about how dumb the rules are. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't, but for me, they are a good compromise. Racings good, and there are workarounds to most issues, so, I'm cool with that. if I'm not, I'll write a letter, LOL.

But no matter what, EVERY ruleset will have it's dumb limitations, things that don't make sense, and EVERY ruleset will have areas where creativity is useful.

[seckerich]

Thats what I was hinting at Jake. There is a logical way to fix a simple problem that should be allowed in the rules. Warts and all with car design, but when it comes to allowed systems that are required to have a good running car that finishes a race, we need to let drivers fix the problems without twisting the rules. It is a real stretch to believe anyone wrote rules to allow a cell, filter, lines, etc and wanted us to race with a fuel starved car. Does that make sense to any logical person. Best I can read the fuel system is free from the fill neck to the stock injection/carb. Playing games with wording is stupid. Is it performing an illegal opperation to supply fuel to the motor? Answer is no, so it is not a tortured interpretation.

[markw]

Here is the solution. VW lists it as a fuel filter in ETKA. 533 201 511 A. If plumbed properly can handle the fuel demands under any load of a 200hp engine.
Regards,

[StephenB]

I probably shouldn't point out that Steve "just fill it" Eckeridge wins most races he enters, LOL.

So I have heard! I have never met him but based on his posts he seems very intelligent and I highly respect his opinions. He also has the coolest name ever... Steve. Oh, and he is also building the same car as me

Stephen

PS: still in the thought process on several items and a local rally prep team had a cool solution which prompted this post. Someday when I save some money and I am further along I will have to call Steve!

[rsportvolvo]

Here's what Prodrive did on the WRC WRX.

http://clubgti.com/forum/showthread....ght=open+house (scroll down @ halfway)

[EV]

Here is another solution... http://bcbroncos.com/store/product_i...roducts_id=119 and it IS a fuel filter

[Bob Roth]

FYI here is a internal trap for a fuel cell http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/...or-p-2818.html

[webhound]

Here is another solution... http://bcbroncos.com/store/product_i...roducts_id=119 and it IS a fuel filter

Sorry for the necrobump.

This thing intrigues me, but I'm too dumb to understand how it works. I have an 89 Civic, ITC/B car, it's got throttle body injection with an in tank pump (all stock) with a return style fpr, that ends up operating just like a return style rail injection setup.

Soooo, does the Bronco thing above function like a surge tank for me? Does one of the fittings, the one supposed to return the air, have to tee into the return from the fpr?

Some sort of surge tank will help this car for enduros immensely, it starves at less than 1/3 tank.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Thats what I was hinting at Jake. There is a logical way to fix a simple problem that should be allowed in the rules. Warts and all with car design, but when it comes to allowed systems that are required to have a good running car that finishes a race, we need to let drivers fix the problems without twisting the rules. It is a real stretch to believe anyone wrote rules to allow a cell, filter, lines, etc and wanted us to race with a fuel starved car. Does that make sense to any logical person. Best I can read the fuel system is free from the fill neck to the stock injection/carb. Playing games with wording is stupid. Is it performing an illegal opperation to supply fuel to the motor? Answer is no, so it is not a tortured interpretation.

Agreed. Any fuel pump, fuel filter and fuel lines may be used.

[webhound]

Any fuel pump: would that indicate one could use a stock pump or otherwise in the stock tank, and a secondary pump, as well? Also, it does say pumps may not be within the driver/passenger compartment: in a hatch, could one put the pump in say, the spare tire well, and firewall that?

[Flyinglizard]

My tanks fit in the spare well .
Ugly but works. ;

http://gallery.oracool.net/v/album82...c+015.jpg.html

[webhound]

My tanks fit in the spare well .
Ugly but works. ;

http://gallery.oracool.net/v/album82...c+015.jpg.html

Mike, thanks, I've seen your setup. But, pretend I'm dumb (not a stretch, at all!), how does this work? Will it work with a one-pump, high pressure, in tank pump, return-style system? Will it keep the air outta my injectors, when I get below 1/3 tank?

Thanks!

Will

[chuck baader]

Will, probably not. The purpose of the surge/filter/tank is to keep fuel to the main pump at all times. For that reason, I use a Holley red (?) as a lift pump that goes to the top of the surge tank. Other connections as follows:

Lift pump to top.

Return line from motor to top.

Overflow to tank from top.

Bottom to main pressure pump.

[dhardison]

Will, I have the same issue and have tried tanks from each year EF, different pumps, etc. all with no luck. One thing I did want to try was running 3-4 of these Walbro fuel pickups I read about on the Sandbox. "Technically" they're 70 micron filters.

http://www.autoperformanceengineerin...l/pickups.html

The one thing I don't know is if they'll fit through the fuel pump access hole. If they do then you could remove the factory filter/sock from the bottom of the pump, tee off of that, then use a couple 'Y's to branch one to each side/corner of the tank (factory baffling might be a problem).

Feel free to buy one of these and let me know if they fit the fuel pump access hole.