surge tanks?

[StephenB]

Just a simple question are surge tanks legal in IT? (For the fuel system to help prevent starvation) If they are legal do the need to have any "rating" like a fuel cell? I read through the gcr but I couldn't figure it out.

Stephen

[Sandro]

Put a filter element in it, and call it a filter. Filters are free

[CRallo]

Put a filter element in it, and call it a filter. Filters are free

and fuel flows through it... plumbing is free right?

[StephenB]

Well I guess those are good arguments but I am going to be in YOUR class and hopefully beating YOU. Are you still OK with that as a reason?

I was reading in the GCR that you can have multiple fuel cells but then I think it needs an SFI rating...

I am honestly going to have a fuel starvation problem and I could add baffles and an additional pump inside the stock tank like others, but is that actually legal? In the end I would rather have the surge tank for multiple reasons but I don't want to waist the money if I am going to be protested and kicked out. I could easily add a filter and call it a huge 2gal. filter I guess.

Stephen

[Greg Amy]

I was reading in the GCR that you can have multiple fuel cells but then I think it needs an SFI rating...

Sticky'd at the top, dood...

https://improvedtouring.com...ad.php?t=23937

[StephenB]

I read through that link but it doesn't really discuss surge tanks and/or the legality of them. I do get the controversy of the wording on the FIA part...(not SFI, that was a slip of names by me) I guess my questions are if we can add surge tanks to a fuel cell system (I think a lot of people do?) And/or can you add a surge tank to a stock fuel system. In both cases does that "tank" have any specific safety requirements?

Thanks you for the link though. I was an idiot and only specifically did a search for "surge tank" but nothing came up.

Stephen

[MMiskoe]

If they are deemed to be wrong for the class there will be many cars out there rethinking their fuel delivery plan. Kind of like spherical bearings.

The only allowances I have seen that they fall under are filters, pumps & plumbing. Its either a filter housing, a mount for the pump or a fat spot in the supply pipe.

My thought is to drive the rule book as hard as you drive the car.

[JohnRW]

Technically, it IS a filter. It filters the air from the gasoline. Duh.

[Chip42]

you can put a surge tank into a stock tank or approved fuel cell. that's pretty clear to me. an external one is less so.

I'm also interested to see what people think as my ITB 1983 VW GTI has a surge can + added extrnal fuel pump which is the primary feed to the CIS. I got the car this way as payment for a motor build and haven't gotten it on track yet. it's not my primary concern, but i have thought about the legality of such a system. it's all enclosed in sheet metal but the surge can is pretty obvious as to what it is.

anyone want an 83 rabbit GTI with 1994-issued logbook? fresh trans!

[StephenB]

you can put a surge tank into a stock tank or approved fuel cell. that's pretty clear to me. an external one is less so.

I'm also interested to see what people think as my ITB 1983 VW GTI has a surge can + added extrnal fuel pump which is the primary feed to the CIS. I got the car this way as payment for a motor build and haven't gotten it on track yet. it's not my primary concern, but i have thought about the legality of such a system. it's all enclosed in sheet metal but the surge can is pretty obvious as to what it is.

anyone want an 83 rabbit GTI with 1994-issued logbook? fresh trans!

This is exactly what I want to do... possibly installed in the spare tire well. Need to plan that out a little more but after talking to a few people I know this is a possible solution I just feel it is a bit "grey" (but creative!)

Stephen

[Chip42]

spare well is where the one for my VW is.

there's a panel that fits over the seperated area. left side is tank, right side is pump, the braided line to the tank is fro mthe main tank pump, rubber line is return from the CIS. blue line feed the secondary pump to the CIS via the other braided line.

legal?

[EV]

spare well is where the one for my VW is.

there's a panel that fits over the seperated area. left side is tank, right side is pump, the braided line to the tank is fro mthe main tank pump, rubber line is return from the CIS. blue line feed the secondary pump to the CIS via the other braided line.

legal?

What did you use for the surge tank?

[rsportvolvo]

My stock K-Jetronic fuel system has an inline accumulator. That is basically what a surge tank is. So I'm just replacing the stock accumulator with a fabricated accumulator.

[Chip42]

What did you use for the surge tank?

I don't know what it came from or if it was fab'ed for this purpose. It came with the car and I haven't done that much digging into the fuel system yet.

[rsportvolvo]

If the consensus is external swirl pots are a no-no then you can either purchase or fabricate/machine something like these ATL UK pieces:

http://www.atlltd.com/racecar/products.php?cat=62

[JohnRW]

What did you use for the surge tank?

I have seen them made out of everything from an old propane bottle ("free" is a price that everyone loves) to steel and aluminum coolant overflow tanks (brush up on your TIG welding skillz, kiddies !) and generic catch cans.

Roundy-round Summit is a good source for weird hardware like -http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CSI-931C/?rtype=10

You could even use one of the 1-gallon mini fuel cells. Put a de-aeration screen in it...it's a "filter" and falls under the "filters are free" rule - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RCI-2010A/

[Dano77]

The RCI thing/mini fuel cell is cool and pretty reasonably priced. Mount to the bulkhead,plumb low pressure lines in and out pull the high pressure pump from the bottom. Best of both worlds,gravity and pressure feed to high pressure pump.
We were doing this on the injected small blocks in the spo car a few years ago. works great. the surge tank/mini cell wont empty to fast and keeps a constant fuel pressure to the secondary pump even when the primary/low pressure pump gets air due to fuel slosh.

Dan 77 IT7

[JLawton]

So, I'm going to be the prick on this one. What's the spirit of the rule? (or lack there of) Sounds to me like there isn't anything that specifically allows it? Not matter what you call it..........

Then on the other hand I couldn't give two craps whether you have one or not and if you beat me it ain't cause of THAT!!

[lateapex911]

you can put a surge tank into a stock tank......

You can?? Where does it allow you to modify the stock tank in any way?

[Chip42]

You can?? Where does it allow you to modify the stock tank in any way?

nothing explicitly allows the modification of, or addition to, the stock tank. No explicit rule allows for the addition of a surge area into an approved cell, either, only the blanket phrase in 9.3.27 "at a minimum".

I made the leap (apparently wrongly) that the addition of a thing (surge can/tank/chamber) into the stock tank was legal from 9.1.3.1.b - it could be considered a filter (very coarse!), or as added protection to the lines. if the stock tank is not modified to accommodate this, I believe I am in the right as I could do the same (or much more) with an approved fuel cell by common understanding.

I fail to see how these little issues to accomplish something like the avoidance of fuel starvation on a car that has an IT-correct motor, uses legal fuel, and makes weight with legally placed ballast always raise such ire among a few. what's the competitive advantage / how is this at odds with the spirit of the rules?

what's more - I'll fully support a verdict of illegal on my VW's surge system. I think it's unsafe to have that much high pressure fuel plumbing in such proximity to the driver, even with the minimalist bulkhead as installed. the cars I prefer to play with, hondas and toyotas mostly, usually have "surge tanks" of a sort built into the stock fuel tanks anyhow. One need not protest any of the cars I support for mods such as this, should one be so inclined. they are all bone stock or use a cell.