Qualifying Grid Order

[Knestis]

I've seen it alluded to several times here and I'm intrigued about the idea of "going slowly to warm up the tires." I'll swerve around as much - or more - than the next guy on a controlled pace lap but NOTHING warms up the tires as quickly as driving around corners at full speed. Someone tells me that they are going slow on the first lap so they can go faster on a later one, I'm calling some BS on that. There's SOMEthing else going on.

K

[ShelbyRacer]

Just askin' the question-

Could someone further back on the grid make a case for "blocking" in that situation? It may not at first seem like a popular idea, but if it really is an issue at some tracks, then would that be a route to resolution?

[gran racing]

Someone tells me that they are going slow on the first lap so they can go faster on a later one, I'm calling some BS on that. There's SOMEthing else going on.

You've lost me. If I'm one of the first cars going out, I absolutely am not going hard if it's a short track (aka Lime Rock or Summit). I won't block anyone behind me if they want to go ahead, but if a couple of the cars behind are on the same page, great.

[jjjanos]

Just askin' the question-

Could someone further back on the grid make a case for "blocking" in that situation? It may not at first seem like a popular idea, but if it really is an issue at some tracks, then would that be a route to resolution?

6.11.1.C. "....Abrupt changes in direction that impede or affect the path of another car attempting to overtake or pass may be interpreted as an effort to deprive a fellow competitor of the right to racing room."

Unless you start qualifying under a FCY, the track is GREEN. That means that if you are weaving side-to-side while another car is attempting to overtake, you are blocking and could be protested. Whether protesting tire scrubbing is a weiner protest or not is debatable.

On the out lap, I always make certain there isn't someone trying to get by me when warming my tires on the front straight. Not sure what one would gain in terms of tire warming beyond that point. Kirk is correct, the best way to warm up tires is to drive 'em.

[Eagle7]

Could someone further back on the grid make a case for "blocking" in that situation? It may not at first seem like a popular idea, but if it really is an issue at some tracks, then would that be a route to resolution?

There was a video on this site a few years ago of a crash at M-O when someone tried to get past a "tire warmer" on the back straight.

[joeg]

K is absolutely correct. The best way to warm up tires is to get going; the swerving does nada.

This has been discussed a number of times.

[Knestis]

You've lost me. If I'm one of the first cars going out, I absolutely am not going hard if it's a short track (aka Lime Rock or Summit). I won't block anyone behind me if they want to go ahead, but if a couple of the cars behind are on the same page, great.

You are, in essence, "laying back" in order to help assure clear track for a flyer. That's different than "I was going slow to warm up my tires."

K

[lateapex911]

If I'm forced to go slow, i certainly do whatever I can to warm the gear. That includes working the tires to get whatever heat in them I can. The result of that heat gained is not linear. 'Nuff said about that.

If I'm NOT forced to go slow, I won't. I might ADD some corners to the track, or axagerate the corners that are there, but i'll do it at a faster pace.

Jeff, I never knew about that method at the ARRC. When I was first on grid for qualifying, I knew I was in the slower class of the group (ITA, IT7), and would be in the top ten overall if i was lucky. In other words, there were ten guys behind me that were faster. Needing only one or two laps, i decided my out lap was going to be brisk, and I hoped for the best. My out lap and two fliers was all I needed, and i pulled in after 4 laps with the next guy barely visible in my mirror.
Atlanta is a long track, (relatively, 2.5 mi?) and groups at the ARRC aren't typically that large. (25+-) Further, the guys there usually are pretty sharp, so it's not unusual for you to see guys doing a couple fliers and calling it done if they like their time. So the whole 'group them tight" method makes little sense to me there, especially when you think that they aren't lined up according to practice times.

The problem is only acute when it's a short track like Lime Rock with fully subscribed groups of 35+, and lots of guys in it who will pound around at their full speed for the entire session. I can see a system being needed at Summit with the big groups there, and certainly at Lime Rock.

What about a random draw? First Q session, you pull in to grid, and you pull a grid spot out of a hat? Grid has a hat with all the grid numbers written on poker chips in it, not too tough,,, and at every LRP race I've been to, there have been PLENTY of grid people, so staffing shouldn't be too tough. I bet they'd have fun with it.

[Andy Bettencourt]

I do the same thing as Jeff. It's funny because he and I actually 'race' to grid. I like to be first, do a quick 4-5 laps, lay down a time and get off the track. About that time, we start dealing with traffic and getting a flyer is pure luck.

If I don't get to grid first, I tell the people in front of me that I am coming through so watch your mirrors. I WILL get to the front in the first 1/4 track.

When I am at the front, I try and hold up the pack SOME, until the last corner in order to let the whole field get out there and minimize lappers while qualifying. If I get to grid mid-pack, I go right to the last spot and hang back letting the gap get huge. I go when I see the front of the pack coming up on me.

My goal is always 3 consecutive clear laps, no matter how I get them.

[Eagle7]

K is absolutely correct. The best way to warm up tires is to get going; the swerving does nada.

I rarely clean my tires, so I ususally go out with lots of pickup (stones and rubber) from the last session. I've assumed that swerving is effective in cleaning tires. Anybody know for sure?

[gran racing]

Good for cleaning, not so good for warming them up.

What about a random draw? First Q session, you pull in to grid, and you pull a grid spot out of a hat? Grid has a hat with all the grid numbers written on poker chips in it, not too tough,,, and at every LRP race I've been to, there have been PLENTY of grid people, so staffing shouldn't be too tough. I bet they'd have fun with it.

I think that is a fantastic idea!!! I sure bet workers would have fun with it too.

[Knestis]

I do the same thing as Jeff. It's funny because he and I actually 'race' to grid. I like to be first, do a quick 4-5 laps, lay down a time and get off the track. About that time, we start dealing with traffic and getting a flyer is pure luck.

If I don't get to grid first, I tell the people in front of me that I am coming through so watch your mirrors. I WILL get to the front in the first 1/4 track.

When I am at the front, I try and hold up the pack SOME, until the last corner in order to let the whole field get out there and minimize lappers while qualifying. If I get to grid mid-pack, I go right to the last spot and hang back letting the gap get huge. I go when I see the front of the pack coming up on me.

My goal is always 3 consecutive clear laps, no matter how I get them.

It strikes me that it's a good thing that you aren't out there with a couple more of YOU. You all would have some intractable conflicts.



K

[Andy Bettencourt]

It strikes me that it's a good thing that you aren't out there with a couple more of YOU. You all would have some intractable conflicts.



K

Which is TRUE! And I have been. At that point, it's first come first served. I have had guys try and pass me when I was up front...and if I thought they were going to drive away, I let them go. If I feel like they may hold me up, I take off and take my chances with traffic.

[JoshS]

I do the same thing as Jeff. It's funny because he and I actually 'race' to grid. I like to be first, do a quick 4-5 laps, lay down a time and get off the track. About that time, we start dealing with traffic and getting a flyer is pure luck.

If I don't get to grid first, I tell the people in front of me that I am coming through so watch your mirrors. I WILL get to the front in the first 1/4 track.

When I am at the front, I try and hold up the pack SOME, until the last corner in order to let the whole field get out there and minimize lappers while qualifying. If I get to grid mid-pack, I go right to the last spot and hang back letting the gap get huge. I go when I see the front of the pack coming up on me.

My goal is always 3 consecutive clear laps, no matter how I get them.

That's exactly what I do.

[lateapex911]

And both your cars are typically the strongest of the groups you typically run with. Coincidence? I think not.

[JLawton]

I've seen it alluded to several times here and I'm intrigued about the idea of "going slowly to warm up the tires." I'll swerve around as much - or more - than the next guy on a controlled pace lap but NOTHING warms up the tires as quickly as driving around corners at full speed. Someone tells me that they are going slow on the first lap so they can go faster on a later one, I'm calling some BS on that. There's SOMEthing else going on.

K

You haven't seen me warm up my tires. It is very difficult for me to get mine warm and I get to the point of sliding the rear end around (which I don't dare do at a faster speed) That and a combination of lots of brake. Does it also help me for the first few laps to avoid traffic. Yup. Just icing on the cake!! I don't block people if they want to get by. Does it give me an advantage? You bet!! Why wouldn't I take advantage of it???



And I may get to grid early but I have NEVER been in the way.

Just askin' the question-

Could someone further back on the grid make a case for "blocking" in that situation? It may not at first seem like a popular idea, but if it really is an issue at some tracks, then would that be a route to resolution?

Ah yes. The infamous Cefelo/Foley incident............ That was a shit storm!!