ABS in IT?

[robits325is]

ABS was in IT until 2000 or 2001 or so. Those that didn't have it complained that it was an unfair advantage and it was banned.

[924Guy]

As far as "deal with it" - note that in 2012, all passenger cars per FMVSS126 are required to have stability control (with some exceptions that are irrelevant for IT).

So in 2017, we will have cars in IT that only came with ABS, TCS and ESC. And they're modern, very effective systems.

[betamotorsports]

VIT - Vintage Improved Touring. This should keep the Luddites happy:

Carbs only.
No ABS.
No ECUs.
Points ignition (no Hall effect or LED triggers).
Drum brakes on the rear.
14" wheels.
Phoenix Stahlflex 301 tires.

[Ed Funk]

VIT - Vintage Improved Touring. This should keep the Luddites happy:

Carbs only.
No ABS.
No ECUs.
Points ignition (no Hall effect or LED triggers).
Drum brakes on the rear.
14" wheels.
Phoenix Stahlflex 301 tires.

Cool, got all that stuff! And, I'm old!

[Knestis]

... Isnt this a club to serve its members or are we working from a representative democracy here? ...

I sure hope not.

K

[steve b]

open ECUs, power/disk brakes, fuel injection, etc. = performance improvements or mechanic's aids

auto transmission, traction control, abs = driver's aids

Depending on cost, I can support changes for performance gains and mechanic's aids. I can not support driver's aids no matter how common place they become.

Power steering is the one allowance that I can think of that would be considered a driver's aid. The drivers that I know that could, removed their power steering.

[StephenB]

open ECUs, power/disk brakes, fuel injection, etc. = performance improvements or mechanic's aids

auto transmission, traction control, abs = driver's aids

Depending on cost, I can support changes for performance gains and mechanic's aids. I can not support driver's aids no matter how common place they become.

Power steering is the one allowance that I can think of that would be considered a driver's aid. The drivers that I know that could, removed their power steering.

Hmmmmm I Think you may have just swayed me to the NO ABS side. I really don't want to give up that feeling of outbreaking a peer through my own ability to threshold break. I think your post is a solid explanation for my viewpoint, well said!

Stephen

[lateapex911]

Hmmmmm I Think you may have just swayed me to the NO ABS side. I really don't want to give up that feeling of outbreaking a peer through my own ability to threshold break. I think your post is a solid explanation for my viewpoint, well said!

Stephen

While it's true that your Audis have been known to break on the threshold of wins as well as other events, I think you are more proud of your threshold braking....

[CRallo]

While it's true that your Audis have been known to break on the threshold of wins as well as other events, I think you are more proud of your threshold braking....

*owned*

[jimmyc]

Even with a brake bias you can only apply 2 different amounts of pressures to the brakes. 1 equal amount to the front and 1 equal amount to the rear. The very instant that ANY 1 of the 4 wheels locks up you are at your maximum braking regardless of the bias. Agreed the bias helps reduce the brake force to the rear however you are still only able to apply the maximum braking force up until the first tire locks up regardless if its inside, outside, front or rear. With ABS all 4 wheels work individually and allow maximum braking to each and every wheel.

I am not an expert but I have tested both with and without ABS in the exact same scenario in the exact same car on the exact same day in a controlled environment. The comparison was mind boggling to me and I instantly became a believer and more importantly an understander.

STEPHEN

errr maybe you missed my point.

On a FWD car, the inside rear typically has very little weight on it and can lock up very easily, or have no weight on it and STOP.

When this happens WITH ABS:

Older systems just engage abs... but you really aren't at the limit, and the fact that the inside rear tire is stop doesn't mean anything...

Newer systems.. you get a whole lot of fun, some times limp mode, some times ICE mode... who knows.


With out abs/with bias valve:

You lock up that inside rear it smokes, but you still brake just as hard and nothing happens except tires smoking...

[jimmyc]

I don't think there's an ITR car for which the factory ABS would not be an advantage,

You're wrong Josh, the newly classed 06 civic SI would be a huge disadvantage.

[Knestis]

Well at least we all agree on that.

K