The best ITB car nobody is racing?

[erlrich]

Ok, so I'm sitting here playing those mind games you play when you need a break from the daily grind, and was thinking about what my next IT project might be. Since a real, competitive ITR car isn't going to fit the budget I've been thinking about looking for an ITB car. The fact that it is probably the most competitive class in IT right now makes it really attractive, and it doesn't hurt that there are probably more different cars that can win in this class than all the others put together. So I was just perusing the GCR and wondering if there is maybe a car in there that nobody has built yet (or at least not seriously) that could keep up with the Golfs, Preludes, CRXs, etc. Something like the Excort EXP, Fiero, or one of the later year Celicas...

So I figured I would ask the pros - if you could build any car for ITB, outside of the current favorites, what would it be?

[quadzjr]

I woudl build a current favorite. as I have one that few are racing and having alot of issues getting it addressed.

Is the datsun 510, Opel GT woudl be cool but I think both are ITC cars.. Jsut from a visual aspect they look cool. doubt either could keep up.

Jay Marlowe has a RWD celica that does real well in ITB (has track record at Roebling), the fiero has been mentioned on here, lighter than the similiar layout MR2 with alot more tq.

[Jeremy Billiel]

Easy... after co-owning the Suzuki Swift GTi I think that car can absolutely dominate ITB with the right prep and driver.

[rcc85]

I did this exercise earlier in the year and this was my top five:

1. Geo Storm GSi
2. Alfa Spider
3. Suzuki Swift GTi
4. Alfa GTV
5 Izusu Stylus XS

All five have excellent power to weight in stock trim. The Swift is 100 hp & really light. The others are, I think, about 130 hp stock.

Bob Clifton
#05 ITB Dodge Daytona

[Andy Bettencourt]

Geo Storm iGSi s horribly misclassed right now in ITB (IIRC) and really should be an ITA car.

Fire Arrow I bet could crush if develped.

Notice both cars are 'pre process' and are overdogs by the numbers.

[plymouthfirearrow]

I own two Fire Arrows ITB and they are fast. One is a 5 time Atlanta Pro It Champion and the other will make its official visit to regional racing At VIR in October. See the cars at www.plymouthfirearrow.com I ran the time trials at Road Atlanta and my times were faster than the those qualifying for the Pro It race... given that the car was brand new, five year old tires and 9 years since I had been on the track...I would say the car will be a front runner with new tires and a little more track time. The Suzuki Swift Gti is not competitive on tracks like VIR and Road Atlanta due to the tranny ratios. I agree that the Geo Storm is the real sleeper.

[924Guy]

There is a Firearrow locally here in ITC, very fast, competitive, as long as he can stay out of trouble.

The E21 320 was fast, but tough to keep the pace, and has aero nearly as bad as a Volvo on the big tracks. Not what you want to try to chase down a Golf 3 with. Rocker arms seem to be a weak point, too.

There is a 4cyl Fear-o locally, actually two. They're both pretty crap. Can't see getting around that suspension, not to mention lack of engine output...

[quadzjr]

If you choose the fiero, you have to use the last model year I think it was 88' that was ont eh only one with the fixed suspension issues.

[Chip42]

short list:

1988-1992 Ford probe / Mazda MX6 /626. I had a turbo version of this car, it handled well and stopped very well. it's a mazda, so parts support is there, and the trans lived all the way through to the last proteges in some form or another (and same F engine code, though notably different from the 2.oL proteges). never seen one raced, likely isn't overweight given the torque potential @2.2L. compares very favorably to the Accord LXi/SEi. needs compression... shit *I* might build this. probe would be slipperier, mx6 gets mazdaspeed perks.

1986-1988 mazda 323 1.6L (NOT the 89 - they added 130# to it in the ITCS) should make sufficient power (~100 wheel maybe?) and, at 2060, it should own the braking sections. merc tracer is same thing with different sheetmetal, so you could probobly get that classed probobly the same.

1993-1997 626 2.0L - this is a less evolved version of the 2.0L protege in ITA (FS vs. FS-DE), without oil squirters and with hydraulic lifters, distributor - so it's not as good - but i'll bet money it makes the power of the 1.8L 99-00 protege, with more tq. It IS the same chassis for all intents and purposes, and weighs 95lbs less. the protege looks like a winner, this should as well. again - same eng and trans families used for a long time = easy to find, cheap parts.

[rsportvolvo]

I have a personal bias as I'm building one, but the Volvo 240 won't be a slouch once it's developed.

[tac911t]

1986-1988 mazda 323 1.6L (NOT the 89 - they added 130# to it in the ITCS) should make sufficient power (~100 wheel maybe?) and, at 2060, it should own the braking sections. merc tracer is same thing with different sheetmetal, so you could probobly get that classed probobly the same.

I had a 87 as a daily driver, bought it new, put about 120K on it before I sold it.
The 1600 Miata uses the same block, and it has the same crank nose failure as the early Miata's (left me and my wife stranded in NJ on a trip to Newport, RI. Had to rent a car to finish the trip). Probably about 85 HP at the wheels, did have good torque (don't remember the number). Independent rear, struts on all 4 corners, don't remember if it had rear disks.

[lateapex911]

Plymouth Firearrow.

[Marcus Miller]

I had a 87 as a daily driver, bought it new, put about 120K on it before I sold it.
The 1600 Miata uses the same block, and it has the same crank nose failure as the early Miata's (left me and my wife stranded in NJ on a trip to Newport, RI. Had to rent a car to finish the trip). Probably about 85 HP at the wheels, did have good torque (don't remember the number). Independent rear, struts on all 4 corners, don't remember if it had rear disks.

What else is different about the motor than the Miata? Head? intake?

Because in IT trim the 1.6 Miata makes a metric shit-ton more than that...

[Andy Bettencourt]

Oh ya.... Por-cha 924.

[tac911t]

What else is different about the motor than the Miata? Head? intake?

Because in IT trim the 1.6 Miata makes a metric shit-ton more than that...

I quoted stock HP numbers (what I remember). The 323 that I had, was the single cam head and used a distributor.

[Greg Amy]

...if you could build any car for ITB, outside of the current favorites, what would it be?

I'd probably buy Christian's car (<---already developed)

...or I'd build a Mazda Protege (<---lots of development to do)

...or I'd find a secret source for rear hubs for Dave's Prelude (<---ah-HEM)

...or I'd get really quirky and fully develop a Suzuki Swift GTi (<---LOTS of untapped potential, but LOTS of development)...

...or I'd race a Miata.

[Z3_GoCar]

Ok, so I'm sitting here playing those mind games you play when you need a break from the daily grind, and was thinking about what my next IT project might be. Since a real, competitive ITR car isn't going to fit the budget I've been thinking about looking for an ITB car. The fact that it is probably the most competitive class in IT right now makes it really attractive, and it doesn't hurt that there are probably more different cars that can win in this class than all the others put together. So I was just perusing the GCR and wondering if there is maybe a car in there that nobody has built yet (or at least not seriously) that could keep up with the Golfs, Preludes, CRXs, etc. Something like the Excort EXP, Fiero, or one of the later year Celicas...

So I figured I would ask the pros - if you could build any car for ITB, outside of the current favorites, what would it be?

Oh BTW,

What happened to the camero? I figured it'd be a very affordable route into ITR.

[erlrich]

Oh BTW,

What happened to the camero? I figured it'd be a very affordable route into ITR.

I'm sure it would be one of the least expensive cars to build for ITR, but I'm 98% convinced that it has a 0% chance of being competitive with the top dogs in ITR. I still plan to do some testing with it in limited IT trim, but unless it suprises the hell out of me it will probably be relegated to becoming a project car/track day toy.

I mean hell, if I just wanted to race an also-ran, I already have one...

[fmracing]

i think the new mini cooper 02-04 would be a good bet