The best ITB car nobody is racing?

[erlrich]

Ok, so I'm sitting here playing those mind games you play when you need a break from the daily grind, and was thinking about what my next IT project might be. Since a real, competitive ITR car isn't going to fit the budget I've been thinking about looking for an ITB car. The fact that it is probably the most competitive class in IT right now makes it really attractive, and it doesn't hurt that there are probably more different cars that can win in this class than all the others put together. So I was just perusing the GCR and wondering if there is maybe a car in there that nobody has built yet (or at least not seriously) that could keep up with the Golfs, Preludes, CRXs, etc. Something like the Excort EXP, Fiero, or one of the later year Celicas...

So I figured I would ask the pros - if you could build any car for ITB, outside of the current favorites, what would it be?

[quadzjr]

I woudl build a current favorite. as I have one that few are racing and having alot of issues getting it addressed.

Is the datsun 510, Opel GT woudl be cool but I think both are ITC cars.. Jsut from a visual aspect they look cool. doubt either could keep up.

Jay Marlowe has a RWD celica that does real well in ITB (has track record at Roebling), the fiero has been mentioned on here, lighter than the similiar layout MR2 with alot more tq.

[Greg Amy]

...if you could build any car for ITB, outside of the current favorites, what would it be?

I'd probably buy Christian's car (<---already developed)

...or I'd build a Mazda Protege (<---lots of development to do)

...or I'd find a secret source for rear hubs for Dave's Prelude (<---ah-HEM)

...or I'd get really quirky and fully develop a Suzuki Swift GTi (<---LOTS of untapped potential, but LOTS of development)...

...or I'd race a Miata.

[Jeremy Billiel]

Easy... after co-owning the Suzuki Swift GTi I think that car can absolutely dominate ITB with the right prep and driver.

[rcc85]

I did this exercise earlier in the year and this was my top five:

1. Geo Storm GSi
2. Alfa Spider
3. Suzuki Swift GTi
4. Alfa GTV
5 Izusu Stylus XS

All five have excellent power to weight in stock trim. The Swift is 100 hp & really light. The others are, I think, about 130 hp stock.

Bob Clifton
#05 ITB Dodge Daytona

[Andy Bettencourt]

Geo Storm iGSi s horribly misclassed right now in ITB (IIRC) and really should be an ITA car.

Fire Arrow I bet could crush if develped.

Notice both cars are 'pre process' and are overdogs by the numbers.

[Chip42]

short list:

1988-1992 Ford probe / Mazda MX6 /626. I had a turbo version of this car, it handled well and stopped very well. it's a mazda, so parts support is there, and the trans lived all the way through to the last proteges in some form or another (and same F engine code, though notably different from the 2.oL proteges). never seen one raced, likely isn't overweight given the torque potential @2.2L. compares very favorably to the Accord LXi/SEi. needs compression... shit *I* might build this. probe would be slipperier, mx6 gets mazdaspeed perks.

1986-1988 mazda 323 1.6L (NOT the 89 - they added 130# to it in the ITCS) should make sufficient power (~100 wheel maybe?) and, at 2060, it should own the braking sections. merc tracer is same thing with different sheetmetal, so you could probobly get that classed probobly the same.

1993-1997 626 2.0L - this is a less evolved version of the 2.0L protege in ITA (FS vs. FS-DE), without oil squirters and with hydraulic lifters, distributor - so it's not as good - but i'll bet money it makes the power of the 1.8L 99-00 protege, with more tq. It IS the same chassis for all intents and purposes, and weighs 95lbs less. the protege looks like a winner, this should as well. again - same eng and trans families used for a long time = easy to find, cheap parts.

[rsportvolvo]

I have a personal bias as I'm building one, but the Volvo 240 won't be a slouch once it's developed.

[tac911t]

1986-1988 mazda 323 1.6L (NOT the 89 - they added 130# to it in the ITCS) should make sufficient power (~100 wheel maybe?) and, at 2060, it should own the braking sections. merc tracer is same thing with different sheetmetal, so you could probobly get that classed probobly the same.

I had a 87 as a daily driver, bought it new, put about 120K on it before I sold it.
The 1600 Miata uses the same block, and it has the same crank nose failure as the early Miata's (left me and my wife stranded in NJ on a trip to Newport, RI. Had to rent a car to finish the trip). Probably about 85 HP at the wheels, did have good torque (don't remember the number). Independent rear, struts on all 4 corners, don't remember if it had rear disks.

[lateapex911]

Plymouth Firearrow.

[Marcus Miller]

I had a 87 as a daily driver, bought it new, put about 120K on it before I sold it.
The 1600 Miata uses the same block, and it has the same crank nose failure as the early Miata's (left me and my wife stranded in NJ on a trip to Newport, RI. Had to rent a car to finish the trip). Probably about 85 HP at the wheels, did have good torque (don't remember the number). Independent rear, struts on all 4 corners, don't remember if it had rear disks.

What else is different about the motor than the Miata? Head? intake?

Because in IT trim the 1.6 Miata makes a metric shit-ton more than that...

[Andy Bettencourt]

Oh ya.... Por-cha 924.

[Z3_GoCar]

Oh ya.... Por-cha 924.

+1

Also e-21 BMW 320i oe is ~125hp, has rack&pinion steering and a getrag 5speed box.

[chewy8000]

+ 1 for the Fire Arrow.

[Rabbit05]

I have never seen, or even heard of, a Plymouth Firearrow until this thread. So I had to go look it up. What a cool looking car !

I found a picture of one in Rally trim ...awesome.....

[Greg Amy]

I have never seen, or even heard of, a Plymouth Firearrow until this thread.

Kids these days... <shaking head>

[joeg]

Build the newest and most popular car.

Things like a Fire Arrow are cool, but most are long gone to Rust Heaven or the crusher.

That is common sense speak.

Lacking common sense, I would build either an MGB GT or Fiat Brava!

[gran racing]

I'd take a long hard look at the Mini. Or have Greg help me find hubs.

[spawpoet]

I'd take a long hard look at the Mini. Or have Greg help me find hubs.

I know it doesn't always translate, but as successful as the Minis are/were in auto-x, I'm shocked that I haven't see them out in ITB yet. Has anybody even built one yet? Seems like it would be a great ITB car.

[Knestis]

I think the BMW 318 has a lot of potential but I agree with the post about "new." I picked the MkIII Golf particularly because it was new enough that it was another generation away from being a vintage car. The MkIV Golf is getting cheap enough to be a real option. If I didn't already have 25 (really) 4x100 Kosei wheels, I'd think hard about starting Pablo Tres on that chassis...

...but to turn the conversation around, I'd be hard pressed right now to make sense of building a new ITB car. Since we focus on enduros and the renters that they bring along, I'd step up to something that has a better chance of winning overall - so attracting serious, funded drivers. The original car is such a small part of the package, once everything is built, the $$ difference between ITB and [whatever] is not as great as it might seem.

tGA has me thinking seriously that a real enduro-spec (i.e., 3-hour capacity) ITA Miata could be an OA winner. The SMs are often in the top 10 with their puny little tanks and slow fuel stops.

K