Letting off Steam

[RedMisted]

I'd love to finally shut up about all this, but I think it's testament to what a fiasco the IT Fest was that many are still talking about it... Yes, a farce, because no matter how peachy things were in the other 5 race groups, the garbage that ensued in Group 2 was enough to mar the whole event.

I'd like to add something new here. I was surprised that there was NO impound. WTF? And now it seems that the lack of an impound period was deliberate to minimize the roles of the CS and the SoM in the event. Think about it: Since these individuals basically did nothing about the Group 2 shenanigans, doesn't it seem that they set things up so as to keep protests to a minimim? If I had wanted to protest the #21 for his hit on me in the qually race, it would have been harder for me to chase down enough witnesses from all across the paddock because there was no driver congregation at an impound.

[John Nesbitt]

"While the protest was well-founded, no action was taken because the SOM found "no malicious intent" on the part of the Acura driver."

7. Penalties
All Club Racing participants are subject to control by SCCA, the GCR, and the Supplemental Regulations. This Section specifies the penalties for violating the GCR and the Supplemental Regulations. (Comment - I.E. the list contains the full range of penalties for a driver found in violation of the GCR. If it is on the list, it may be imposed. If it isn't on the list, it may not be imposed.)

7.2. RANGE OF PENALTIES

In increasing order of severity, the range of penalties is as follows: (A list of penalties which does not include not imposing a penalty.)

Based on what you wrote and my understanding of what the GCR directs, the SOMs found that he violated the GCR and, having done that, they must impose a penalty from 7.2, even if it is as minor as a $1 fine. No penalty is not on that list. The SOMS did not do that and that gives you grounds to appeal.

The reason is this is important is that, even though imposing a fine is considered less of a penalty than a reprimand, most Stewards won't impose a fine and will reprimand them, toss a time/finishing position and or DQ them.

Anything above a $99 fine imposes penalty points. The only way to establish a paper trail of violations is for a driver to have penalties imposed by the SoMs. Rack up 11 points in a 3-year period and you just bought yourself probation.

The poster wrote, "While the protest was well-founded, no action was taken because the SOM found "no malicious intent" on the part of the Acura driver."

This can be read as meaning that the SOM did not uphold the protest, and consequently did not levy a penalty. The expression "well-founded" is usually used to describe unsuccessful protests.

Perhaps the original poster could tell us whether the protest was upheld or not.

[tom91ita]

i would agree that our group 2 had its moments but there were also a couple of times that i was just giggling when the VW, Ruck Sr., Hardison, Heckman & i were close to each other. it had been quite a while since i was in a pack of several cars dicing for position.

with regards to starting on the back, no better or worse with regards to seeing the starter. i started behind Marty and could not see the flagger. i could see the little cupolo portion above the starter but that was it.

i have also narrowly avoided incidents in T1 with the "normal" starts.

i think i might have the distinction of being the first car touched by the VW in the Sunday a.m. qualifying race. Marty's video might be just starting just when i got bumped.

we were sort of bunched up and some accelerating was happening coming out of the keyhole and then we checked up. the vw tapped me (not as hard as i have been bump-drafted) and frankly i did not think anything about it then or now.

one question regarding the Sunday pm race. who was the BMW passing the crx's down the back straight under the double yellow?

i don't have video.

and kudos to Hileman in ITB. the only time i saw him was on the results sheets several inches above my name.

[Eagle7]

Haha, no I noticed that too, but I can tell you that running down the backstraight with my Dad all weekend, the two cars were pretty equal. Basically whoever was in the draft got the better drive. In that clip I think he just got a good jump.

I'm with Kevin. The B cars were eating my lunch in the corners all weekend. In this traffic jam at the start I was biding my time waiting for openings. Apparently #21 saw some openings that I didn't.

[Gregg]

A few things-

I am making the most of my allowed appeal period. I'm simply not sure that I can afford to lose a minimum of $100 (according to the current GCR, that is the minimum Administrative fee). I know it's a point that needs to be made, and that's why I filed the protest to begin with...

As for your #3- if I hadn't have pointed him by, perhaps he might not have assumed that I knew he was there, and maybe he'd have been more "on my door". No matter what, his driving/racing technique sucked.

I think I need to appeal, but I'm not sure if it's in the cards at this point...

I'll send ya $50 via PayPal, Matt.....And stop thinking you had any complicity in his actions. As Jake said, he was never going to be on your door from where he entered and would have tagged you just the same (but perhaps with less damage to your car). If the SOM found it to be a racing incident, they botched it and you should appeal. If they failed to assess a prescribed penalty, you should appeal. As I have seen on multiple occasions with stewarding in the DC region (before John N. joined the program), there have been instances where the stewards have not followed the GCR in meting out decisions and the appeals process DOES correct that not just once, but ensures that they are a little more careful in their decisions going forward as well.

[Knestis]

I'd love to finally shut up about all this, but I think it's testament to what a fiasco the IT Fest was that many are still talking about it... Yes, a farce, because no matter how peachy things were in the other 5 race groups, the garbage that ensued in Group 2 was enough to mar the whole event. ...

I wasn't there but I've seen my fair share of dorked up races in almost 30 years now. It is NOT the "event's" fault. First, it's the fault of a few drivers who, as is often the case, managed to mess things up for the majority. Second, it completely sounds like a few officials were falling into the "don't want to miss the beer" trap that we've all seen - or had happen around us but didn't see - lots of times.

People are at fault, not the IT Fest. You could go to a regional next month and run into those same people and - SURPRISE! - it would be a shambles again. That's why the protest and appeal process is so important.

K

[gran racing]

Rob, I've been biting my tonge but...

I'd be happy to provide, and would have at the event but no one came to find me.

If you have video of another driver/car incident, think it's pretty silly what happened, you should seek out at least the innocent driver(s) involved. They should need to find you, people in your position should seek them out. Consider what they may/may not be going though at the time. Protest, or not to protest (hurry! 30 minutes isn't a lot of time). Witnesses? Are there any? Their own video? Who was that car behind them? How would they know?

All a learning experience. Next time I'd suggest approaching the driver, state you were behind them, have video to show what actually happened, and go from there.

On edit: that might come across as being more harsh towards Rob than meant.

[924Guy]

Regarding the speed of the #21 ITB - I agree, no odd power advantage here. I even watched Sunday PM from the keyhole, observing his group, and he wasn't the fastest car down the back straight - Tom (Forst - #00) could get a decent run on him at least half the laps. I just see someone who was on the ball going through the Esses, and made a move for some clear track that was perhaps over-optimistic... but I can't say I wouldn't have done the same. I just might've done it a little cleaner, that's all - but that's experience, which this newer driver apparently didn't have. Though maybe he's a lot more experienced now!

Something's got to be done to bring the ITS driver to justice. Sorry, but it DOES seem like the stewards are puss-ing out on this, from everything I've seen and heard.

Intent has all of jack squat to do with it. "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to put you in the wall!" Oh, well that makes it all better, doesn't it?

I can do nothing, I was only a crew b*tch this weekend. It's up to the participants involved. Matt - here's hoping closer scrutiny and video review makes your appeal go more smoothly. It may also be appropriate that you discuss with my wife and her experiences with this guy...

EDIT: Anyone have video from Madness, trackside, during the Sunday AM quali race (group 2)? Last lap, where #77 ITB went off?

[tom91ita]

.......Something's got to be done to bring the ITS driver to justice. Sorry, but it DOES seem like the stewards are puss-ing out on this, from everything I've seen and heard..........

after the fact with video and time on our hands it is a much clearer picture than what the stewards likely had in hand.

but i agree. this should be appealed with the video included. stupid question, does the appeal process still require VHS format?

[John Nesbitt]

I can do nothing, I was only a crew b*tch this weekend. It's up to the participants involved.

Strictly speaking, you can. From GCR 8.1.5 (emphasis added):

Any entrant, driver, crew, organizer, or official participating in an event

may protest any decision, act, or omission of another entrant, driver,
crew, organizer, official, or any other person connected with that event
whose actions the protestor believes to be in error or which violate the
GCR, the Supplemental Regulations, or any condition involving SCCA’s

sanction of the event.

Normally, it's the affected driver who protests, but it's not limited to the driver.

[John Nesbitt]

but i agree. this should be appealed with the video included. stupid question, does the appeal process still require VHS format?

Pretty much any video format is acceptable. Keep in mind that you must submit the entire original video, not an extract.

The video will be returned at the end of the appeals process. It's still a good idea to keep a copy for yourself, just in case.

For a writeup on the appeals process, see the January Fastrack, or download the CoA procedure from driverinfo.johnnesbitt.com

[924Guy]

Strictly speaking, you can. From GCR 8.1.5 (emphasis added):

Any entrant, driver, crew, organizer, or official participating in an event

may protest any decision, act, or omission of another entrant, driver,
crew, organizer, official, or any other person connected with that event
whose actions the protestor believes to be in error or which violate the
GCR, the Supplemental Regulations, or any condition involving SCCA’s

sanction of the event.

Normally, it's the affected driver who protests, but it's not limited to the driver.

OH! Duh! I did read your excellent posts on protests etc... but I guess that shows that retention is less-than-perfect! Cheers!

[mossaidis]

i think you are combining incidents. the vw did not hit the shelby.

well, at least not in the video link i posted.

You are correct - my apologizes (see roverelf - it's not that hard). Another example where I should NOT be posting during work hours.

[Ed Funk]

You are correct - my apologizes (see roverelf - it's not that hard). Another example where I should NOT be posting during work hours.

What else you gonna do during work hours?

[ShelbyRacer]

The poster wrote, "While the protest was well-founded, no action was taken because the SOM found "no malicious intent" on the part of the Acura driver."

This can be read as meaning that the SOM did not uphold the protest, and consequently did not levy a penalty. The expression "well-founded" is usually used to describe unsuccessful protests.

Perhaps the original poster could tell us whether the protest was upheld or not.

My protest fee was returned to me, I was told it was well-founded, and that they determined the cause to be the tire issues. They also said they were going to speak to him about car preparation.

I am in the process of writing an appeal letter, which I will finish over the weekend. Once finished, I will make a final determination of whether I will make the appeall or not. I thank all of you for your words of support and encouragement, both publicly and privately. I have not had a chance to respond to everyone, but I will try to.

Most of all, I feel better regarding this incident, because no matter what the final outcome, I just want to make sure that I handled myself well on-track, and that you would all feel comfortable going in to a turn side by side with me. I'm not going to back off, but am I going to give you room to race me. I also want those in faster cars to know that I'm a heads-up driver, and that even though I was working to stay ahead of another ITB car, I also saw another race coming, and did my best to let them have their track for that battle as well. The last thing I want to do is screw up someone else...

Edit: Also @ John- thanks for taking the time to write your driver's guide. I've just been looking at it as a resource, and have found some helpful info that was not readily apparent from other sources.

[tom91ita]

most of us have at one time been the punter as well as the puntee.

my take on this is man-up and admit it whenever it is our fault. if the guy had apologized profusely or offered to help you repair your car in the paddock, etc., you would have likely felt different about it.

he did not learn anything from this incident. i would appeal.

[ShelbyRacer]

I am submitting my appeal tomorrow. I know it's the last day, but I have been seriously mulling it over that much. I can post my appeal letter once it's finalized if anyone wants to see it.

[gran racing]

Sure, post it on up. Glad to hear you are going through with it.

[lateapex911]

My protest fee was returned to me, I was told it was well-founded, and that they determined the cause to be the tire issues. They also said they were going to speak to him about car preparation.

.

I just reread this. What a boat load of crap "Tire issues" is. So they really feel his tires were just FINE up at the keyhole, but they suddenly vaporized after the long straight into 4? Come on, what kind of moron buys that!?? Complete and utter BS.

Stewards, it's simple, THE GUY SCREWED the POOCH. You can NOT go into a corner that shallow and expect to make the radius at the same speed you make a much larger radius. Simple physics, folks!

ANYone with a racing license SHOULD get that, and a Stewards should too. It was driver error, resulting in avoidable contact. Hugely negligent, deserved points on license.

Matt, thank you for appealing, this was yet another case of Stewards being too nice, for some unknown reason.

[ShelbyRacer]

Appeal has been filed and accepted by the National Office today. Here is the letter I sent. I would also note that I did not submit new evidence, as my appeal has more to do with the inactions of the stewards than the incident itself.

-------------------------------------------------------

I am writing to appeal the decision of the SOM regarding the Protest of the driver of car 73 ITS by Matthew Green, driver of car 96 ITB, in the Saturday afternoon Group 2 race at Mid Ohio on July 31st, 2010. The sanction number of this event was 10-R-1124-S.
Description of the on-track incident:
A few laps into the race, I began to be lapped by faster cars, while still holding off another ITB car. On one lap, while accelerating down the main straight (under the pro-start stand), I noticed that two ITS cars, and Acura and a Miata, were gaining on me, after having passed the ITB car behind me. As I entered the braking zone, I pointed the lead car, the Acura, by me to driver’s right. I then turned in, while maintaining 1.5-2 car widths at the apex on my right. As I completed my turn, I was impacted heavily in the right rear, causing my car to spin clock-wise, off-course to driver’s left, coming to a stop at the lower end of the gravel trap. After restarting the car, I recovered myself from the gravel, and proceeded on point from the next station at the crest of the hill. I then continued driving while assessing the state of the car, and chose to continue, albeit at a reduced pace.

My account of the protest process:
Following the Group 2 race on Saturday afternoon, I, Matthew Green, driver of car 96 ITB, approached the Chief Steward, Pat McCammon, to file a protest for on-course contact. I cited GCR sections 6.11.1.A-D, regarding avoidable contact, racing room, and passing responsibility. After some delay (handling other incidents), Mr. McCammon introduced me to the Operating Steward for Group 2. I mentioned the incident, and the OS looked at his notepad and nodded affirmatively. Mr. McCammon asked the OS if he was choosing to take any action, and the OS replied that he was not. At this time, I completed a protest form and gave it and the $25 protest fee to the Chief Steward. He suggested that, prior to officially submitting the protest, I see the driver of car 73, Mr. Pat Kean, to discuss the matter if I was comfortable doing so. He also said he would hold my protest in good faith and, should I choose to lodge the protest, would consider it submitted at the original time. Prior to this, I had not approached the driver out of concern for holding my temper, but at this point, I felt I could speak to him constructively.
Upon approaching Mr. Kean, I introduced myself, and he offered something of an apology (something like, “Yeah, I’m real sorry about what happened to you out there.”). I attempted to explain to him that I was upset due to the severity of the hit, and that I thought there were several things he could’ve done to prevent the situation, such as staying closer to my side as we approached the corner. He replied that when he saw my point-by, he expected me to just “let him go by”. I explained that by giving him two car widths at the apex, I thought I was allowing him to pass easily and safely. Mr. Kean then began to explain to me that his tires had been going away, which was why he wasn’t as fast as he should’ve been, and that as he entered the braking zone for turn 7, they “got much worse”. At this point, I felt that Mr. Kean was not taking proper responsibility for his actions, and I informed him, very clearly, that I had filed a protest about the incident. He responded, “Well, if that’s what you think you have to do…” and I walked away.
I then went immediately to the Chief Steward, Mr. McCammon, and confirmed that I did wish to file the protest. He accepted it at that time. He informed me that the SOM would want to speak to me. I said that I had in-car video, and he told me to bring it with me to the SOM if I wanted to present it.
I returned to my paddock space and began to work on my car. A while later (not sure of the time, but possibly 1-1.5 hours later), I heard Mr. Kean paged over the PA to report to the SOM at the medical building. Fearing that I had missed an announcement of my name (it had been a while), I went to the SOM, and was informed that they wanted to talk to Mr. Kean first, and that they were looking for him. They said they would page me when needed. I then returned to my paddock space, and had one of my crew, Matthew Rowe, take my rear wheel (hit in the incident) to be examined by the Hoosier Tire workers. While having the wheel balanced, Mr. Rowe overheard the one worker remark to another that the tires nearby were from an ITS Acura, and that the tires needed to be saved because they had “caused the driver to hit someone and now there was even a protest filed”. After a while longer, I returned to the SOM, at which time I was told that Mr. Kean had left the track, and that they would be delaying things until the next morning. Once again, they would page me when they needed me.
The next morning, I reported to the SOM when called. I offered my testimony of the incident, as was written on my protest form. I offered in-car video, and was advised that I “may not want to do that unless it shows something specific” because “most people don’t get those back.” Considering that my in-car simply showed my point-by (a point that I was told was not in dispute) and my leaving of racing room for Mr. Kean (again a point that I was told was not in dispute), I took the advice of the SOM and withheld my video. The SOMs then thanked me for assisting in that, called the other driver, and dismissed me. As I was leaving, I asked if any action was to be taken for Mr. Kean leaving the track. I mentioned that I told him I was filing a protest, and also brought up what has overheard at Hoosier Tire. The SOM Chairman said they would check into it, as they were going to Hoosier to see the tires that were on Mr. Kean’s car. I then went to watch the ITA/ITC/IT7 race which had just started.
At the conclusion of the race I was watching, I headed back to my paddock. As I passed Medical, I saw the SOMs returning. They motioned me over and took me inside. I was told that the SOM was having trouble locating another witness to the incident because “there was nothing in the control log” and they “had no idea who the other ITB or ITS car was” that was racing with us. I said that I knew the other ITS car was a Miata, and that I had been passed by a pair of different Miatas on a previous lap. I was told that neither Mr. Kean nor the SOM could identify the car. I asked to see the provisional results, and pointed out a Miata in ITS that had finished immediately behind Mr. Kean, noting that the other two Miatas in the results were several places higher and paired up the same as they had passed me on track. They then paged the other driver, whose name I do not recall. We then spoke again briefly about when had occurred on- track, and in short time, the Miata driver arrived. The SOM asked me to wait outside, because they “didn’t think this would take too long”.
After about 5-10 minutes, the SOMs asked me to come back inside so that they could deliver a verdict. I was told that my protest did have “foundation”, but that they felt that Mr. Kean did not hit me maliciously. They returned my protest fee of $25 and said that they would “speak to Mr. Kean extensively about his car preparation and mechanical condition.” I then asked if any action was to be taken for Mr. Kean leaving the track, and I was told that there would be no action, because they couldn’t determine if he really knew about the protest.