What do I do about this?

[StephF]

But is it a new attitude?
I honestly don't know.

[jumbojimbo]

Wait a minute, am I reading this right? Are you guys saying that the stewards can't do anything unless someone files a protest?

It was not my impression that the stewards are in a locked room with no windows and can only act on papers that are passed thru a slot in the door. We're not electing a pope here.

I thought the stewards were responsible for the conduct of the race and had the power (and responsibility) to create a request for action any time behavior is witnessed by anyone that violates the rules, especially rules that compromise safety.

If bad things are happening at an event, the stewards are responsible for stopping it. They can't just throw their hands up and say "hey, no one complained about that car that bounced off 6 others." The safe and fair conduct of an event is the steward's responsiblity isn't it? It would not be ok for all the GT1 drivers to get together before a race and say "no rules today, lets go ahead an play nascar today."

Granted the stewards can only act on what they observe, but to put all the responsibility on the drivers to file a protest is unfair. We all have different opinions on what is appropriately agressive driving and what is pinata driving.

No driver wants to file and be the guy who complains. A quiet word to the stewards to watch someone is appropriate and SHOULD result in the stewards actually observing and taking action if appropriate. If a driver has a problem with another driver's actions on Saturday and he speaks to the stewards I thought it was within their power (and again their responsiblity) to observe that driver on Sunday and take action if action is appropriate.

[StephenB]

Again I am on my phone so this will be short... you are correct!

Stewards can and have held drivers accountable for their actions. Even I was penalized by a steward. : ) or maybe : ( I was actually at the ARRC racing in second/ third / fourth depending on the lap with Justin pool. Together we made minor metal to metal 3 times during the race one time being a bump draft. In the end neither car had any dents, just one minor scratch on my car. I ended up fourth and we arrived at the tech shed with all grins! Then the provisional results came out with both of us penalized three spots. I had never met Justin nor had I ever raced in this region and was shocked since my region had never done this, especially since we both had no issues with eachother. In the end we together protested the stewards for the severity of the penalty and took a 1 year probation instead of the 3 spot finishing penalty.

So yes even if the drivers are 100% OK with eachother and happy as can be and no significant damage exists it is still within their power, right, and responsibility.

Stephen

[jumbojimbo]

Yeah, ignore my earlier post. That kind of description shows a lack of common sense and reminds me why it would be a mistake to say to a steward "Hey, you should watch the miata and ME very closely today." Who knows when I'll accidently bump an orange miata on the start.

[John Nesbitt]

Wait a minute, am I reading this right? Are you guys saying that the stewards can't do anything unless someone files a protest?

It was not my impression that the stewards are in a locked room with no windows and can only act on papers that are passed thru a slot in the door. We're not electing a pope here.

I thought the stewards were responsible for the conduct of the race and had the power (and responsibility) to create a request for action any time behavior is witnessed by anyone that violates the rules, especially rules that compromise safety.

If bad things are happening at an event, the stewards are responsible for stopping it. They can't just throw their hands up and say "hey, no one complained about that car that bounced off 6 others." The safe and fair conduct of an event is the steward's responsiblity isn't it? It would not be ok for all the GT1 drivers to get together before a race and say "no rules today, lets go ahead an play nascar today."

Granted the stewards can only act on what they observe, but to put all the responsibility on the drivers to file a protest is unfair. We all have different opinions on what is appropriately agressive driving and what is pinata driving.

No driver wants to file and be the guy who complains. A quiet word to the stewards to watch someone is appropriate and SHOULD result in the stewards actually observing and taking action if appropriate. If a driver has a problem with another driver's actions on Saturday and he speaks to the stewards I thought it was within their power (and again their responsiblity) to observe that driver on Sunday and take action if action is appropriate.

See post #50, above.

The short version: Drivers and stewards have a shared responsibility for rules enforcement.

You write, "No driver wants to file and be the guy who complains. A quiet word to the stewards to watch someone is appropriate .." That's not how it works. If the stewards receive a report from a corner about an incident, or observe it themselves, they have the duty of investigating and acting.

However, if there is no official report, the steward has nothing to go on. Not every incident is witnessed by an official. In those cases, it is up to the affected driver to protest. You are not the "guy who complains"; you are the guy who exercises his right to a safe race track.

If all you do is complain on a forum, then all you accomplish is to hear yourself complain.

[lateapex911]

Yea, WE are out there. WE are the drivers, and WE know more about racing than most Stewards, some who haven't ever raced, and some who haven't raced in a loong time. (There ARE a bunch who HAVE raced, but, often they aren't in a position to actually SEE any of the racing. )

So, it IS up to us, in 80% of the cases, to be the whistle blowers.

(I an totally guilty myself as I witnessed the same guy make TWO passes under yellow, two laps in a row, at the same corner after the yellow had been out for a number of laps. I thought it was SO obvious that he'd be going straight to hell, and the flaggers would honey pot him at first sight. So I didn't file. Wrong move)

[StephF]

Back on the number of ITC cars tangent, we were talking with Fred White yesterday at NHMS, and he would be interested in making a road trip out next year also. So there's two potential C cars from New England. Maybe we can drum up some folks from NJ/PA area like Meg. Could be fun!

[Jim Royal]

I Asked at our meeting last week how many cars would be the min. to get our own ITC group. They all committed to me that if I can get 15 car to show up we would have our very own group. I'll have to look at My Laps, but I believe we had 9 or 10 cars at that race this year. This could really happen with a little help from people like you who are willing to make the trip! I will start a new thread to highlight this once I get a bit more information. Thanks for the interest, this could turn out to be alot of fun.

[Knestis]

Dissenting opinion warning...

Regions can obviously do any darned thing that they want but separate run groups for as few as 15 cars is *not* a direction I'd want to see the Club go. This entire game is based on multi-class race groups and (among other things) the imposition in terms of the length of time we ask workers to stand in the sun means that we need to be circumspect about the practice of adding groups. Particularly if the impetus for doing so is a problem (e.g., dumbass driving by a few) that should be dealt with in more direct ways.

K

[Jim Royal]

I guess this is the wrong thread to discuss this, The reason for the separate run group is not to run away from bad driving but rather somthing neat that ITC drivers NEVER get to do. My motive to put this together is simply to give those with a C car lots of other C cars to run with for a change. Also unless it rains very few of us have had the chance of leading the pack on the overall pole! I also agree about run groups with 15 cars but I remember that is the MIN. I hope to see more than that!

[dickita15]

I do not see anything wrong with giving a class a feature position for one weekend, particularly with a class like C that most of the time does not get that treatment. NER started doing a Vee fest with our early June regional. A couple of the Vee guys came up with the idea. Vee fields are not usually great at NHMS. All the region gave them was a their own race group and their own section in the paddock for this one event. Some of the drivers begged door prizes. I think they gave away $3k in stuff this year.

When you have a bunch of people who run a few events a year it makes sense to try to get them to all run the same weekends.

[joeg]

That's right! And a 15 car "group" is by no means that small these days...unfortunately.