Manual/power steering swap?

[wepsbee]

Before I screw this up completely I figured asking would be the best course.
It is my understanding that you can change things on your car as long as that
"thing" came as a stock OEM configuration. I would like to change my car from a power steering type to manual steering.
According to the factory manual the car was supplied both ways. Is it then OK for me to do the swap. Saves weight and has a couple of other benefits.

[Greg Amy]

According to the factory manual the car was supplied both ways. Is it then OK for me to do the swap.

Yes. Just ensure it was supplied both ways on the configuration of the classified car (e.g., Escort GT, not just "Escort", or are they all on the same spec line?)

GA

[wepsbee]

Yes. Just ensure it was supplied both ways on the configuration of the classified car (e.g., Escort GT, not just "Escort", or are they all on the same spec line?)

GA

All suspension and drivetrain the same. I will ensure the Escort and Escort GT came equipped with both types of steering.
Thanks

[Chip42]

The Escort GT has a varient of the MAzda BP 1.8L DOHC, it is not the same as the Escort 1.9L SOHC "spec racer ford" motor.

the GT (particularly the 1995 though other years may vary) came with power steering, no option for manual that I am aware of.

so you should continue to run the PS pump and rack. silly rule, but it is what it is.

[Greg Amy]

Chip, the spec line in ITA lists "Ford Escort GT/LX-E 1.8L 16V (91-95)" (the ITA car runs the Miata-family engine; we know this because my engineer did engine work for them).

Were any of the "Ford Escort GT/LX-E" variants available with manual racks? If so, he's legal to use them, yes?

GA

[Knestis]

Sho' 'nuff. The 1.8 and 1.9 shouldn't be on the same spec line. Another case of FITSLS - F'd Up IT Spec Line Syndrome.

K

[tderonne]

There's no 1.9 on the spec line.

All 1.8 Escorts came with power steering.

[Chip42]

beyond that an LX-E and GT are different body styles - if you have a GT you have a hatch, an LX-E is a sedan, so it doesn't matter if it came without PS, which it didn't. there was no 1995 LX-E, either.

it's analogous to the ITB Accord (88-91) where the 3 door has to run rear drums as an LX-i but the 2 door can run rear discs as an SE-i. I think it's possible that there are more ITB SE-i models than ever produced for sale in the USA by honda.

this isn't the place for it, but the rule to maintain PS is on the short list of things I'd abolish if I ruled the world.

[wepsbee]

Thanks for the info. Further checking has revealed the all Escort GT models came with PS. Oh well I tried.

[erlrich]

beyond that an LX-E and GT are different body styles - if you have a GT you have a hatch, an LX-E is a sedan, so it doesn't matter if it came without PS, which it didn't. there was no 1995 LX-E, either.

Yeah, but to Greg's point - it doesn't matter if they are two different body styles; if they are on the same spec line of the GCR they're all one car for purposes of the rules. If you own a GT, but only the LX-E came with the manual steering option, you could put manual steering in your GT. In this case it sounds like the point is moot, since neither variation seems to have come with manual steering.

[Chip42]

Yeah, it doesn't matter if they are two different body styles; if they are on the same spec line of the GCR they're all one car for purposes of the rules.

I disagree. ITCS 9.1.3.C "Specifications" 2nd Paragraph:

updating and/or backdating of components is only permitted within cars of the same make, model, body type (e.g., sedan, station wagon, convertible, etc.), and engine size as listed on a single Improved Touring specification Line... Additionally, it is not permitted to “create” a model or type of car by updating or backdating assemblies.

so while they are on the same spec line, how can one create a combination of parts that was never offered for sale? as an example, an ITB 92-95 Civic DX was available as a 2, 3, or 4 door. all are on the same spec line, with the wheelbase differences noted per body style. manual steering was only available on the 3-door. by what you are saying, I would be able to use that rack on a 4 door, a different body style. I understand that they share a classification spec line but isn't that the same thing as creating a model that was not available for sale ion the US?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just asking as I have always read it as body style constrains options despite sharing a spec line with other bodies of the same trim level. what's right?

[wepsbee]

BTW The escort LX is also a hatchback.

[wepsbee]

There are a zillion 3 door hatchback Escorts. 99.9% are LX's.
Check this out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Escort_(North_America)

[JoshS]

Yeah, but to Greg's point - it doesn't matter if they are two different body styles; if they are on the same spec line of the GCR they're all one car for purposes of the rules.

I disagree.

I disagree too ... I'm with Chip. I actually confirmed this with respect to my own car.

If cars A and B are on the same spec line, but car A is available only as a sedan, but car B can be had as both a sedan and a hatchback, then the hatchback version of car B cannot use any parts only available on car A. However, a sedan version of car B can use anything from car A.

This might be a moot point with respect to power steering on the Escorts, it sounds like but let's be clear about what the rules say anyway.

[erlrich]

I disagree too ... I'm with Chip. I actually confirmed this with respect to my own car.

If cars A and B are on the same spec line, but car A is available only as a sedan, but car B can be had as both a sedan and a hatchback, then the hatchback version of car B cannot use any parts only available on car A. However, a sedan version of car B can use anything from car A.

I'll take your word for it Josh, since it sounds like you've actually been there done that. It was just always my understanding that all cars on a single spec line were considered the same for purposes of updating/backdating. Guess I was wrong.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Correct, you were mistaken. Only cars of the same body type on the same line can be UD/BD. Since we removed the station wagon limitation, there may be some optins that only came on SW's that were not available on coupes or sedans of the same line. I bet Ford made Escort wagons in those years too.

[JeffYoung]

Where does it say this in the ITCS?

[JoshS]

Where does it say this in the ITCS?

See post #11 in this thread.

To maintain the stock basis of Improved Touring, updating and/or backdating of components is only permitted within cars of the same make, model, body type (e.g., sedan, station wagon, convertible, etc.), and engine size as listed on a single Improved Touring Specification Line.

[erlrich]

See post #11 in this thread.

To maintain the stock basis of Improved Touring, updating and/or backdating of components is only permitted within cars of the same make, model, body type (e.g., sedan, station wagon, convertible, etc.), and engine size as listed on a single Improved Touring Specification Line.

Interesting, that's exactly where I interpret it as saying that all cars on the same line may be updated/backdated - see the part I underlined. Josh, where did the ruling you refer to about your car come from? A protest/appeal, or compliance review?

[JoshS]

No, sorry, it was just a response to a letter. I agree that it could be interpreted multiple ways, which is why I sent my letter. But as I've thought about this many times over the past few years, I believe that the intent was the "no building a model that didn't exist" concept, which would be consistent with not exchanging parts across body types.

You also have to put it that line in the context of the spec lines as they have been written -- there are many, many examples of spec lines that contain multiple body types, even multiple "models." With your interpretation, it would seem that no such spec lines should ever have been written. Since they were, I conclude that your interpretation doesn't make a lot of sense.