Miata for ITA

[Andy Bettencourt]

Ed: How about if I pay you back if I DO win? LOL. Attending races is always about money, time and priorities. Simply put, I haven't prioritized one of those races over 4-5 others yet. This year, I am down to a 3 local weekend schedule.

Jeremy: The conversation isn't about MY abilities, its about the Miata's abilities, again. Every year, I offer my car to a few select people I trust (to be able to pay if it gets wrecked) to take it to the big events for free so that it CAN be compared to other cars (Kip V for instance). I would love to see it run.

Greg: We all know Matt can build a motor. I am waiting with great anticipation for you guys to actually do one. One that you know is legal, one that you know is your best effort. When you do, we can sit down over a beer and compare the dyno sheets of our two cars when I bring mine to your dyno for back to back testing.

I also wonder what will prompt you to say to everyone "I told you so on the Miata". When one wins the ITFest? Or the ARRC? Hardly dominant. CRX's and Teg's have been doing that for almost a decade. I guess we should be using the E36 measuring stick, which is very fair. I dont see it happening, but if it does, I will be the first to again submit my data. Overdogs suck.

[JLawton]

I love it when you can say anything and put a smilie after it and make it OK!! LOL


We forget about Shane running at LRP (not to take away from the Miata Haters!!). He does "OK" there.

If anyone wants to trade their half way decent SM (or ITA Miata) for my 10/10ths built Saturn, I will do it in a heart beat. Any takers??? Noooooooooo, I didn't think so. I wish I had the money to sell the Saturn and pay the many thousands more needed to buy a decent Miata.


.

[gran racing]

We forget about Shane running at LRP (not to take away from the Miata Haters!!). He does "OK" there.

No disrespect to Shane's driving abilities, but we've also seen his car in the tech shed whether intended issues or not.

I added the smiliey just to ensure that statement was okay. That said, I'd LOVE to see Joey or Bob at LRP with some ITA Miatas.

[Greg Amy]

...wonder what will prompt you to say to everyone "I told you so on the Miata". When one wins the ITFest? Or the ARRC?

That's the best part, Andy: I won't have to. The moment it happens history will be vindicated, and pointing out the obvious is nothing more than salt in the wound (well, I'm sure I'll call my new BFF and taunt him, but I'll be calling you with congratulations.)

I'm on record from the moment that car was moved to ITA at that weight* as saying it will eventually be the car to beat.

Hardly dominant. CRX's and Teg's have been doing that for almost a decade.

...because the CRX'n and Tegua have been in development for over a decade. It wasn't until the mid-2000s that anyone began to look seriously at the Miata for Improved Touring (Spec Miata effectively killed that interest by at least five years), and in only limited cases (you, KvS, Cefalo). And, in only limited cases has the car seen widespread exposure (primarily, KvS). The development curve of the car is only now beginning to flatten out, and there's a lot of stuff left to learn.

I guess we should be using the E36 measuring stick, which is very fair.

Only in terms of potential, but not in terms of proper classification. I know you guys love to bring up the Bimmer as an example of class dominance, but it's actually better an example of poor classification. Any car can dominate when it's classified at 300(?) pounds lighter than its competition, based on reasonable performance measurements.

On the other hand, poor classification (vis-a-vis advantageous power-to-weight) usually reveals itself soon enough.

And Mac: I don't know why you keep tossing up the dissenters as "Miata Haters" (how about we call them "deniers" instead; same basic attitude: you disagree with the "settled classification" you're a "denier".) In point of fact in my own case, I'm far from being a "hater"; I love the damn car! I fell in love with that little roadster when they came out brandy new (and, since I used to work at the local Mazda dealership, lusting after RX-7s, helped my then-girlfriend buy one of the first ones to come into this country) I've personally owned several of them, have prepped one (so far) for racing, and I am consistently involved with them in various ways within the racing community. And, only this past weekend, I admitted - in public, with witnesses, no less - that I thought the car can be given responsibility for bringing in additional membership and competitors into our organization!

But that doesn't mean that I can't see the forest for trees, and recognize what I feel are basic mistakes and assumptions in classifications of the car in ITA. In fact, because I like the car and know it reasonably well - as do you guys - I can see the potential that I know you do, too. That doesn't mean I "hate" the car; at worst one can can call it "jealousy" for having such an awesome little rocket in such a (perceived?) advantageous position. I really don't think we disagree with that.

And, in fact, as I've alluded to in the past, I have plans to do exactly as you suggest and build one, simply because I believe that car is the one to have (though, I admit I personally tend to be one that leans windmill-tilting-ish when it comes to situations such as this...the oddball TR8 holds a distinct attraction to me, for some reason...or maybe it's just Jeff that attracts me...I get confused sometimes )

I can't say what Hoppe's (or others') motivations are, but you're really off-base with the "hating" stuff. In fact you're off 180 degrees...but I can empathize with your concerns, as if I were in the same position I'd also be worried about losing that advantage (I believe Nordwald was the one that finally, publicly admitted the advantage, stating - paraphrased - "that's why I bought the damn car!")

I'd love to see more of these cars build to the "T" and brought out to key events. We'll probably see Cefalo at IT Fest and ARRC again, and I'd love it for you guys to bring your "A" games to the CaddyShack Open - uh, I'm mean, the SCCA Runoffs - at the country's Dyno Proving Grounds, Road America.

"The truth will out", whatever it is...

GA


*Gulick called me the summer of 2005(?) to tell me they were moving the 1.8L M1 to ITA. I remember the conversation clearly, as I was leaning on the railing of a hotel in California, overlooking the Pacific Ocean. If I recall correctly, my first response to "we're moving the 1.8L Miata to ITA was "Cool...what weight?" and when told it what weight the response was "are you guys high...?" Then I got really pissed off at myself for selling - just two weeks prior - the 1.8L Spec Miata I'd built, all in an effort to concentrate on my NX that got moved to ITA the prior winter. I knew at that point I had a very limited window to get that car on the top step before development of the Miata caught up and made it irrelevant...so in that regard, I guess it was a "good" decision.

Regardless, my tune hasn't changed since, and there's no evidence to suggest it should.

[Knestis]

...I love the damn car! I fell in love with that little roadster when they came out brandy new (and, since I used to work at the local Mazda dealership, lusting after RX-7s, helped my then-girlfriend buy one of the first ones to come into this country) I've personally owned several of them, have prepped one (so far) for racing, and I am consistently involved with them in various ways within the racing community.



Whee!

K

[Greg Amy]

whee!

Nemesis!!!!! Damn you, Knestis!!!!

[gran racing]

Now there's a car I love to hate. Damn Golf IIIs & IVs. LOL!

[IPRESS]

That has been a few years (your NX2000 season) and the miata has not beaten the crap out of the holy Honda at the big events in all that time. If it was the be all end all that is promoted here, even in ham hands it would show its dominance. Why has the Teg /CRXs been given a pass "in the dominant car" catagory even though it continues to be the winning car / cars?
To me it comes across as a pro Honda crowd and an anti miata crowd. The miata is an easy target as SM has developed many "anti miataites". I have cussed them (the drivers) many times myself. I changed classes to get away from them and the resultant (is that a word) $$$$$$ of body work. All that being said you guys in the great NE have let it get a little personal, (Andy quit driving so well) and your faithful followers tend to chime in with your (and others) message creating a pile on (hater) situation.
I don't have a turf to protect (or an "A" car) so no gain here. Travis built his car because it is familier to him, he knows how to do some of the wrenching on it, and if he drives well can be in the front pack. He DID NOT build it because it is the car to have. Until any old hack can get in a top miata and kick Honda butt the message you guys sing is not valid.
When I did have a very well built "A" miata the car only got me so far. Several MidDiv wins, against less than top car / driver combinations (a lot of crossover SMs and a few others). When I took the same car to ARRC it got me in the top 10 / 15 or so. Now if Drago, Bennett, Pombo, or Stretch were in it, Kevin, AJ, and the Mosers would have had a tougher race. (Not that Tom & Cefalo didn't give Kevin a tough time the next year either.) If more than one of those guys above were in pretty well done miatas it would have been double tough. The draft is the thing for miatas at RAtlanta. When it is all added up it just comes out as a car that can compete right now..... not dominate. That title would fit closer to the Honda products....but they should not be tagged with that title either, IMHO. "A" seems very healthy and the miata is part of why it is healthy, just like the Honda cars.

[lateapex911]

No disrespect to Shane's driving abilities, but we've also seen his car in the tech shed whether intended issues or not.

I added the smiliey just to ensure that statement was okay. That said, I'd LOVE to see Joey or Bob at LRP with some ITA Miatas.

I left Shane out of it because he hasn't won the ARRC or the IT Fest. (And yea, I know, the Mosers cars got dq'ed at teh ARRC for the induction issue, which, I think was silly, because their illegal induction (cold air) was not, to my eyes, the reason for winning) I think the Moser cars can be considered the best CRXs in the country. So that is the yardstick.

The question remains, in a theoretical race between the best CRX and the best Miata at Lime Rock, which will win?

I honestly wouldn't wager.

[JLawton]

No disrespect to Shane's driving abilities, but we've also seen his car in the tech shed whether intended issues or not.

.

That's a cheap shot, even with the smilie.....

...I love the damn car! I fell in love with that little roadster when they came out brandy new (and, since I used to work at the local Mazda dealership, lusting after RX-7s, helped my then-girlfriend buy one of the first ones to come into this country) I've personally owned several of them, have prepped one (so far) for racing, and I am consistently involved with them in various ways within the racing community.



Whee!

K

To F'ing funny!!! He wasn't feeling the love that day!!

The question remains, in a theoretical race between the best CRX and the best Miata at Lime Rock, which will win?

I honestly wouldn't wager.

Does everyone forget that Shane beat Andy at the NARRC Offs??? (sorry Andy, not to dredge up bad memories)

I'm just sayin' you need to give Shane his dues.


So....... no takers on my Saturn??? Damn!!!


.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Does everyone forget that Shane beat Andy at the NARRC Offs??? (sorry Andy, not to dredge up bad memories)

I'm just sayin' you need to give Shane his dues.

.

Was a wet-damp-dry line race!!! Qualified a second faster than him!!! Have to self promote in this crowd!!! LOL

Would LOVE a head to head dry race. ANd I fully believe 110% he has legal stuff.

[lateapex911]

What Andy said. NARCC Offs wasn't a definitive day. No disprespect to Shane intended on my part at all, and i feel Shane has taken the bull by the horns and has taken the high road. Thumbs up to him. (In that case, the system worked...(thanks to Kathy Barnes, because otherwise, there were major issues in the process))

[wepsbee]

So my previous choice of a car did not seem like a good move. Would an earlier year Miata be a good choice for an ITA car. I like the 1.8 BP engine and I am somewhat familiar with it so I thought staying with it would be good. I think the BP is also in the early series Miata so what do you think? ( I can not wait to see these responses)

Last time I ask a question with Miata in the sentence!!! Sorry about all the "issues" brought up by this question but it was asked in good faith not to open wounds or stir pots. You guys are a tough crowd!!

[Jeremy Billiel]

Bottom line Dan is the ITA Miata is THE car to build in ITA.

[lateapex911]

Bottom line Dan is the ITA Miata is ONE OF THE Rear Wheel Drive Platforms to build in ITA...and probably the BEST choice for Lime Rock but not necessarily EVERYwhere else.

My opinion added and bolded to bring your opinion to a more proper place.

[Jeremy Billiel]

My opinion added and bolded to bring your opinion to a more proper place.

Ok Jake so remind me again how Cefalo was able to run so well at the ARRC with no prior experience there and no drafting buddies?

[trhoppe]

And how did his data show 6 more mph at the end of the straight with a 5mph disadvantage through the apex and a later application of the throttle?

[lateapex911]

Ok Jake so remind me again how Cefalo was able to run so well at the ARRC with no prior experience there and no drafting buddies?

Cause he had Crazy Joe working for him?

[lateapex911]

And how did his data show 6 more mph at the end of the straight with a 5mph disadvantage through the apex and a later application of the throttle?

Oh, come on, bringing FACTs to the discussion? What are you, nuts? Was that DL 1 to DL 1?

[Andy Bettencourt]

And how did his data show 6 more mph at the end of the straight with a 5mph disadvantage through the apex and a later application of the throttle?

Than who? A guy with the worng Final drive and a bustificated header? LOL