Racing Hubs for 85-87 hondas 1g/3g

[Buford]

1g/3g Hondas have been breaking stock hubs when they are raced with wide, high offset wheels and sticky tires/slicks. I am trying to get a Group Buy going to produce a run of race quality hubs as Hondas supply has been exhausted, so putting in new ones every season will not be an option.

I have been working with ICP Citation on this project.

They produce very high quality racing components and have many top racing teams as clients. They also produce the championship winning Citation formula cars.

They are proposing making the 1g/3g Hubs out of heat treated 4340 steel. These hubs will be bullet proof so you won't have to change them every season or every 8 races. They would also like to get a broach made to keep the costs down. Broaches are expensive to have made and has to be amortized against the first buy.

In order to get these made we will have to do a Group Buy with the usual down payment up front and final payment before shipping. This project will take several months to get drawings done, G Code created and have a broach made.

We need to build 10 sets (20 hubs) in order to keep the cost down Under $400 per hub.

Yes good parts and good material costs, but is cheap considering that the loss of a wheel at speed could mean the loss of the whole car and worse.

I would like to start a list of interested parties, so please PM me and I'll add your name to the list.
Just need to get a head count now so we can arrive at the best pricing possible.

I have also posted this on Redpepper and will post on the GT site so we can get as many people as possible to get in on this build. Please pass the word on.

Buford

[Knestis]

<insert appropriate question about IT legality here>

K

[preparedcivic]

<insert appropriate question about IT legality here>

K

Perusing the IT ruleset, all the words say are equivalent parts of the same material. a ferrous steel alloy is still iron.....whether it be cast or forged. An OEM part that was cryo'ed has had its molecular structure "optimized" to enhance durability. Is that the same material as it was? Nothing is in the GCR Appendix F beyond a definition of metal, which happens to be way looser than the variations on material I've outlined above.

To put as another example in simple terms on a throwaway part in applying this rule, is the metallurgy and weight identical between OEM, Brembo and chinese AutoZone rotors listed as direct fits for the same car?

[Richard Pare]

I am the guy who will be making the hubs.

I have an e-mail in to Dave Gomberg to get his take on the rules. In a quick read, there is an allowance for dimensionally identical aftermarket replacement parts, so it would seem that these new hubs would be allowed. I'll post Dave's answer when I get it.

I expect production to start on the smaller spline CRX hubs within the next few weeks, but there is a lead time of 6-8 weeks for the broach to be made. We would also need a new broach for the larger splined hubs, so that lead time needs to be allowed for also.

These new hubs will be a bit more than double the yield and fatigue strengths, which should but them up into the "bullet-proof" category.

If you have any questions, you can contact me directly at [email protected]

[Richard Pare]

Word back from Dave Gomberg is that the " same material" requirement in IT could possibly be a sticking point, but he's not sure, so has turned the question over to the IT experts.

In other classes (I have a lot of experience in the formula classes, but not here), 'Like Material" would mean that a "steel" part can be replaced with another "steel" part, but not with cast iron, titanium, plastic, etc.

My own opinion is that as long as the OEM hubs are "steel" and the replacement hubs are "steel" then they would be OK, but I have no experience in the way the rules in IT are interpreted. Hopefully he will get an answer back shortly, and when he does, I'll pass it along.

[Richard Pare]

Word back is that getting an answer is going to take a few weeks. Sorry. I'll update once we get something, one way or the other.

[Knestis]

I'd ask you to check with Gomberg, to see if I can whittle new connecting rods out of the "same material," too...

...but at the end of the day, he can issue any kind of opinion he wants and it won't guarantee that you'll survive the protest and appeals process, should someone call you on it.

K

[Buford]

Knestis,

The Purpose of the original post was to let Honda 1g/3g racers know that there would be some race quality hubs available. Period.

You jumped in and automatically assumed that some one in IT Honda's was going to cheat.

ICP Citation does Formula cars, not IT. Since your question about legality, he has asked SCCA about the legality issue in IT. He didn't have to take his precious time to do this and be up front in posting the answers.

For me, my Honda CRX ITA car was not legal after the first week we brought it home. legal in GT, lapping days and NASA for sure. We are not planning on running in any SCCA class. If I did it would be in a Formula car, like the last time I was in SCCA some 31 years ago.

Again, you assumed that this was for IT, FYI there are Honda IT racers that do more than SCCA race events,like NASA and solo classes where the hubs would be legal. Maybe they would like to be safer in those events.

I'm not putting my son in a car at speed with critical parts that routinely fail. Period.

Right now we have interest from guys in GT, Solo, Street (275hp to the front), and drag racing etc.

Also, What's with the German Flags?, Why no American flag? I hear that Vee Dubs are also breaking hubs, Why aren't you trying to fix that dangerious situation?