Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 27

Thread: BFG R-1's or Kook C51's

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Fort Mill, SC
    Posts
    328

    Default BFG R-1's or Kook C51's

    I look at both tires and know there is no contingency so that makes things even.

    Which tire will be faster and offer the best life. The BFG's I have only read opinions based on heavier cars. I know the kooks are just as fast as the Hossiers but with alot better life.

    Car is an ITA Neon size 205-50-15, I would be buying 6 tires and rotating them thru as even as possible. Would run at least the following

    MVR Double @ Nelson 5/15-16 (3) practice/qualifying (2) races
    Steel Cities Restricted single @ Beaverun 7/31-8/1 (2) practice/qualifying (1) race
    NeOhio 1 day double after the 12 hr @ Nelson 8/22 (1) practice/qualifying (2) races
    Steel cities 1 day double @ Beaverun 9/26 (1) practice/qualifying (2) races ?

    So that would be roughly 14 cycles spread across 6 tires

    BFG's are $986.71 shipped
    Kooks are $1,095.00 shipped
    1987 ITS RX-7
    2014 Ford Focus ST
    Currently borrowing tow vehicles!!

    Central Carolina Region

    STEELERS SIX PACK!!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    North Olmsted, Ohio
    Posts
    519

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cjb25hs View Post
    I look at both tires and know there is no contingency so that makes things even.

    Which tire will be faster and offer the best life. The BFG's I have only read opinions based on heavier cars. I know the kooks are just as fast as the Hossiers but with alot better life.

    Car is an ITA Neon size 205-50-15, I would be buying 6 tires and rotating them thru as even as possible. Would run at least the following

    MVR Double @ Nelson 5/15-16 (3) practice/qualifying (2) races
    Steel Cities Restricted single @ Beaverun 7/31-8/1 (2) practice/qualifying (1) race
    NeOhio 1 day double after the 12 hr @ Nelson 8/22 (1) practice/qualifying (2) races
    Steel cities 1 day double @ Beaverun 9/26 (1) practice/qualifying (2) races ?

    So that would be roughly 14 cycles spread across 6 tires

    BFG's are $986.71 shipped
    Kooks are $1,095.00 shipped
    cough BFG cough

    oh wait..am I allowed to vote?
    Greg Vandersluis
    #4 1990 Honda Civic Si
    #97 2003 Chevrolet Corvette Z06
    #93 2006 Ford Mustang
    Carbotech/BFGoodrich/Vandersluis Motorsports
    2010 Great Lakes Division ITA Champion
    2012 Great Lakes Division T1 Champion

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    7,031

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cjb25hs View Post
    I know the kooks are just as fast as the Hossiers but with alot better life.
    Really? Educate me on this!

    PS: I think the Goodyear RS is better than all of them.
    Andy Bettencourt
    New England Region 188967

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Fort Mill, SC
    Posts
    328

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Bettencourt View Post
    Really? Educate me on this!

    PS: I think the Goodyear RS is better than all of them.
    This only what I have read and heard. I have not personally tried either tire yet. As far as the goodyears what kind of life do you get out of them.
    1987 ITS RX-7
    2014 Ford Focus ST
    Currently borrowing tow vehicles!!

    Central Carolina Region

    STEELERS SIX PACK!!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    774

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cjb25hs View Post
    This only what I have read and heard. I have not personally tried either tire yet. As far as the goodyears what kind of life do you get out of them.
    unfortunately the goodyears only come in a few sizes, and after talking to the rep at PRI, that don't plan to change (no tires for 14" wheels) Also from the rep at PRI he says that with there tires, and especially with the slicks they need to be bedded or breaked in to get maximum life out of the tire. so run a light session, come in ot the pitcs and take the weight off them and let them cool.

    Aparrently this will resolve the heat cycle issue people are having with them. I have alos heard that once they get hot, they will remain consistent, where a hoosier will dramatically fall away during the race.
    Track Speed Motorsports
    http://www.trackspeedmotorsports.com/

    Steven Ulbrik (engineer/crew/driver)
    [email protected]

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    7,031

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cjb25hs View Post
    This only what I have read and heard. I have not personally tried either tire yet. As far as the goodyears what kind of life do you get out of them.
    They would easily do 14 cycles across 6 tires. I find that they take an extra lap to come up to speed but are 100% consistant froa race up here in the Northeast. They are also less prone to flat spotting if you make a mistake. I have never gone faster with Hoosiers than with Goodyears. They are only available in 205/50 and 225/45 15's IIRC.

    I have run them for 3 years now.
    Last edited by Andy Bettencourt; 03-24-2010 at 02:25 PM.
    Andy Bettencourt
    New England Region 188967

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Rockaway, NJ
    Posts
    1,548

    Default

    When I was in ITS on a 15 inch wheel I ran Goodyears - personal best on them at LRP and NHIS...
    BenSpeed
    #33 ITR Porsche 968
    BigSpeed Racing
    2013 ITR Pro IT Champion
    2014 NE Division ITR Champion

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Fort Mill, SC
    Posts
    328

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Bettencourt View Post
    They would easily do 14 cycles across 6 tires. I find that they take an extra lap to come up to speed but are 100% consistant froa race up here in the Northeast. They are also less prone to flat spotting if you make a mistake. I have never gone faster with Hoosiers than with Goodyears. They are only available in 205/50 and 225/45 15's IIRC.

    I have run them for 3 years now.
    So what is the best method you use to heat cycle them in? I can still drive my car on the street so I would consider running the fronts only for a good 10-15 minutes change and repeat. Cool in dark basement
    1987 ITS RX-7
    2014 Ford Focus ST
    Currently borrowing tow vehicles!!

    Central Carolina Region

    STEELERS SIX PACK!!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Black Rock, Ct
    Posts
    9,594

    Default

    I've run Kooks and Hoosiers on my car back to back. The Kooks are great, but the Purple is greater. The Kooks do seem to last, with a gradual fall away.

    The Kooks seem like they have tow golden laps right out of the gate.

    Generally speaking, cycling requires you to get the tires up to temp...really up to temp. Street driving, unless you have a closed off development with lots of corners, just isn't practical.
    Jake Gulick


    CarriageHouse Motorsports
    for sale: 2003 Audi A4 Quattro, clean, serviced, dark green, auto, sunroof, tan leather with 75K miles.
    IT-7 #57 RX-7 race car
    Porsche 1973 911E street/fun car
    BMW 2003 M3 cab, sun car.
    GMC Sierra Tow Vehicle
    New England Region
    lateapex911(at)gmail(dot)com


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Silicon Valley, CA
    Posts
    1,381

    Default

    Anyone have any comparative advice about the BFG? I just bought a set to try in 2 weeks after 3+ years on the Hoosier. What's the best break-in approach, do they need a heat cycle, what temps/pressures do they like relative to Hoosier, etc?
    Josh Sirota
    ITR '99 BMW Z3 Coupe

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Fort Mill, SC
    Posts
    328

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lateapex911 View Post
    I've run Kooks and Hoosiers on my car back to back. Street driving, unless you have a closed off development with lots of corners, just isn't practical.
    I was thinking of 4 to 5 miles of 75-80mph plus some cornering. Seems to me that a local autocross 1-2 runs back to back would work as well.
    1987 ITS RX-7
    2014 Ford Focus ST
    Currently borrowing tow vehicles!!

    Central Carolina Region

    STEELERS SIX PACK!!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Fredericksburg, VA
    Posts
    1,191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshS View Post
    Anyone have any comparative advice about the BFG? I just bought a set to try in 2 weeks after 3+ years on the Hoosier. What's the best break-in approach, do they need a heat cycle, what temps/pressures do they like relative to Hoosier, etc?
    BFG recommends one heat cycle, then let them sit for 24 hrs. Pressures appear to be in the Hoosier range - they have a pretty good guide for the R1 here.
    Earl R.
    240SX
    ITA/ST5

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Wandering the USA
    Posts
    1,341

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshS View Post
    Anyone have any comparative advice about the BFG? I just bought a set to try in 2 weeks after 3+ years on the Hoosier. What's the best break-in approach, do they need a heat cycle, what temps/pressures do they like relative to Hoosier, etc?
    Please start a thread on this when you get back from the track. I'm pretty tempted to try them, but neither my budget nor schedule allow much experimentation.
    Marty Doane
    ITS RX-7 #13 (sold)
    2016 Winnebago Journey (home)

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Black Rock, Ct
    Posts
    9,594

    Default

    From what I hear, they are slower. Even if they last longer, they are still slower. So, I guess it's a price decision..are tehy THAT much cheaper?

    IF they are, say, 1 second a lap slower, and they last 12 or 14 cycles, and if the Hoosier is faster by a second a lap, but loses a second after 5 or 7 cycles, but stabilizes for 5 or 6 more cycles, then it seems like the Hoosiers are better, as you are faster for some and the same for the rest of the cycles.

    But, thats a presumption. It would be great to get the back to back answers...but, this is black magic, answers are tough to come by!
    Jake Gulick


    CarriageHouse Motorsports
    for sale: 2003 Audi A4 Quattro, clean, serviced, dark green, auto, sunroof, tan leather with 75K miles.
    IT-7 #57 RX-7 race car
    Porsche 1973 911E street/fun car
    BMW 2003 M3 cab, sun car.
    GMC Sierra Tow Vehicle
    New England Region
    lateapex911(at)gmail(dot)com


  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Ligonier, PA, USA
    Posts
    1,676

    Default

    "From what I hear, they are slower."
    Not true Jake, and don't judge them by my times @ ARRC, I had problems with my car, not the tires.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    43

    Default

    I doubt you will find someone who has purchased more BFG tires then me(lately).We use them on a front drive 2400 pound enduro car.
    We have been using them for the last 3 years.3 years ago in testing the Hoosier was about 1/2 a second faster when both tires were new.After the first sesssion the Hoosier was 3/4 a second faster for about 7-8 laps and then when it dropped off both tires were pretty equal in times.I would say when both tires have a few cycles on them they are very close in lap times with the Hoosier being a tad quicker in the first few laps.The BFG smoked the Hoosier in tire life,we have never corded,flatspotted or chunked a BFG tire.We have put used ones on the rear of the car and left them for 8 hours straight.The fronts have been double stinted(4 hours straight) many times and depending on the track or driver may have then been used for rears.
    Don't get me wrong I like and run Hoosiers on other cars but the BFG is at least $40 less per tire I think,they work well with no" oh my god fall off" and if you can heat cycle them once and let sit for 24 hours they will last forever.We scrub in all our sets of enduro tires,I am sorry but unless you are a top notch driver in your class and need to have fresh rubber every race the BFG is a awesome tire and it sounds its exactly what your looking for.

    So we tried the newest Goodyear tire at the ARRC last year,brand new tire no one had it yet.Tire was awesome,fast,crisp,clean and boy you could drive the car right to the edge which the one down side to the BFG is when exiting the corner you want to ease your way over to track out and maybe even leave a extra 6 inchs just in case it wanted to keep going.As awesome as the Goodyear was I did a easy session to scrub it in,let it sit for 24 hours,Mark Carpenter qualified on it and then used them for the ITR Sprint race.They were put on for the first stint of the 3 hour enduro and when he came in after hour and twenty minutes they were gone.So after about 2 1/2 hours they were useless.

    And as far as Hankocks,I wouldn't race them on a big wheel.

    Give ol Nate at the Tire Rack a call,I just ordered a bunch of stuff from him,he is awesome,his ext. number is 688

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Wandering the USA
    Posts
    1,341

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshS View Post
    Anyone have any comparative advice about the BFG? I just bought a set to try in 2 weeks after 3+ years on the Hoosier. What's the best break-in approach, do they need a heat cycle, what temps/pressures do they like relative to Hoosier, etc?
    How did it go?
    Marty Doane
    ITS RX-7 #13 (sold)
    2016 Winnebago Journey (home)

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Silicon Valley, CA
    Posts
    1,381

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle7 View Post
    How did it go?
    Not very well. Apparently I was the only one on the planet who didn't know that the '03-'05 GM trucks had instrument cluster gauge issues, so when my oil pressure dropped to zero, I gave up on the journey and had the truck towed back home and had a friend come get me and the trailer from the side of the road. Turns out it was just a gauge issue, not an engine issue.

    I'll be making another attempt (this time Laguna Seca) at the end of the month.
    Josh Sirota
    ITR '99 BMW Z3 Coupe

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Wandering the USA
    Posts
    1,341

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshS View Post
    I'll be making another attempt (this time Laguna Seca) at the end of the month.
    Hope this attempt went better
    Marty Doane
    ITS RX-7 #13 (sold)
    2016 Winnebago Journey (home)

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Silicon Valley, CA
    Posts
    1,381

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle7 View Post
    Hope this attempt went better
    Thanks, but ... not really. It was actually a major carnage weekend at Laguna, so many friends left with big $$ to spend. The luckiest guy in that bunch simply never got his car to start, and after spending 8 hours trying, just gave up on the weekend.

    In my case it was just a return of the cooling problem I've had ever since I wrecked the car last June. Obviously something overheated at some point because I continue to lose well over a gallon of water each session, and though you'd think with that much loss it would be obvious where it's going, it's not. Nothing visible anywhere. I thought several times I've had it figured out only to be thwarted. It doesn't reproduce itself anywhere except actually on the track, which has made it tough to diagnose. In any case, the head is coming off this week.

    So I did get, oh, 10 laps on the tires? Not much. The car was really sketchy when the tires were cold, much looser than it has EVER been with Hoosiers. I'm now thinking though that I was effectively spinning in my own ... water, if that's even credible.

    So I've got no new insight.
    Josh Sirota
    ITR '99 BMW Z3 Coupe

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •