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Thread: Track Photography....WTF...#@%@%#!!!!!!

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    Default Track Photography....WTF...#@%@%#!!!!!!

    I just don't get it. I attended the Watkins Glen Fun ONE. I do not remember signing up and wanting photos taken.... I have received an innvoice for $91. I have left a message that I did not ask for photos. Years and years ago I thought track photos were neat but now I just worry about have enough money to race. Has anyone else received anything similiar?

    Greg

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    WMass
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    Either send them back or do nothing. He will take you 'off the list' if you don't send them back.

    I don't like this sort of business tactic myself. BTW, I am off the list.
    Steven Frederick
    NER


    ITA Miata-24

  3. #3
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    May 2003
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    Lagrangeville, NY
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    694

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    Yeah, I had a bill for a while. Eventually they went away. Roz I think the guys name was.
    Chris Raffaelli
    NER 24FP

  4. #4
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    Sep 2005
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    Roz is the name......why is this allowed and why do we need to put up with it? $91.... ????? I don't get it....... 10 little pictures sent to me that I didn't ask for and I have to take the time to send something back that I did NOT ask for. This guy must be tight with someone in the SCCA....never had this tactic at a NASA event.... and I run more SCCA stuff.

    Greg

  5. #5
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    Oct 2005
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    In the green Honda
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    You don't have to send anything back. You don't have to do anything. Unsolicited merch is yours to keep. Keep the pictures, throw them away, whatever.

    Oh, and this comes up every year.
    Jim Hardesty
    ITC 1986 Honda Civic Diablo Rojo Verde
    Never argue your tab at the end of the night. Remember, you're hammered and they’re sober.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
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    Black Rock, Ct
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    LOL, recently I was at Summit Point, and got super lucky and set a track record, and I thought it would be neat to have a picture from the weekend. So I sniffed around, and found the photog that was there shooting, and called him. He said he'd look it up and call me back. When he did, he told me I was on his blacklist. He said he shot me at some race in 98 I think, and I never paid for the pictures he sent. I told him I'd never heard of him, can't remember ever requesting pictures and certainly never saw any. He said he has more faith in the US Postal System and is sure I got them and didn't pay. He confirmed he sends them unsolicited with a bill.

    I told him I thought that was a crappy way to do business, and that he had no business forcing me to pay, OR return his stuff, on MY dime. He told me I was "very unusual, not like most racers who are thrilled to get pictures of their car". And if I sent him the $50 or whatever, he'd start shooting me again.

    I suggested he'd be waiting a loooong time until I supported such a rip off system even IF he had the best shot of my car ever, and that he should use a web based system. He said it's too much work, and those that do it that way don't make as much money.

    Well, yea, but they're not extortionists either, LOL.

    After I got off the phone I thought I had been too nice.
    Jake Gulick


    CarriageHouse Motorsports
    for sale: 2003 Audi A4 Quattro, clean, serviced, dark green, auto, sunroof, tan leather with 75K miles.
    IT-7 #57 RX-7 race car
    Porsche 1973 911E street/fun car
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    lateapex911(at)gmail(dot)com


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Wandering the USA
    Posts
    1,341

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    He's sent me two or three different sets of pictures over the years. I've never responded, and continue to get bills.
    Marty Doane
    ITS RX-7 #13 (sold)
    2016 Winnebago Journey (home)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    newington, ct
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    I've received the summit pictures in the past too and just put them aside somewhere. This year was pretty frustrating. Normally race pics that have been sent to me are pretty boring but this time I really liked them. Darn it. LOL Since I did and wanted one blown up, I paid for two of them and returned most of the others.
    Dave Gran
    Real Roads, Real Car Guys – Real World Road Tests
    Go Ahead - Take the Wheel's Free Guide to Racing

  9. #9
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    Sep 2005
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    WHY IS THIS GUY ALLOWED TO DO THIS? HE IS GETTING HIS INFO FROM THE CLUB! THE REASON I CAN TELL IS THAT ON MY CAR INFO IS THE OTHER RACE NUMBERS I SELECTED. HOW DOES HE GET OUR ADDRESSES?
    THESE BUSINESS PRACTICES SHOULD NOT EXIST DURING A CLUB EVENT...... WE PAY ENOUGH MONEY!!!!!!

    Greg

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Dallas, TX
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    Roz was recently discussed on the Prod forums, the USPS says it is illegal to send unsolicited merchandise with demand for payment. Contact your nearest postal inspector, enough complaints and a chat from an inspector will probably get it stopped at all tracks for everyone.

    http://prodracing.com/prodcar/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11057

    Direct from USPS https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/i...itedFraud.aspx
    Last edited by mbuskuhl; 02-17-2010 at 09:16 AM.
    Mark B. - Dallas, TX
    #76 RX-7 2nd Gen
    SCCA EP
    Former ITS, ITE, NASA PT

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Connecticut
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    Greg, this has been going on for decades. DECADES. I used to get these in the mid-80's when I raced. Sometimes I'd drop the stamp to send them back to stay on their good graces, sometimes I'd simply ignore them. Your prerogative, no need to get yourself upset over it.

    The *only* person that has ever taken the time to ASK me in advance if I want photos is Gordon Jolley, at Road Atlanta. Gordon has always taken the time to find me on the grid, ask me if I want photos, and then sent me proofs afterward. If Gordon asks me, I'll take the time to return them if I don't want them. Everyone else...so solly. - GA

    On edit: A lot of times I like the photos that Roz takes, but his techniques are a lot like spam: as long as someone keeps buying them, he'll keep doing it...

  12. #12
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    Jan 2001
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    Buffalo, New York
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    I buy what I want...there is no problem here.

    It is unsolicited and there is no obligation on your part to buy any or send them back.

  13. #13
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    Jan 2001
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    Flagtown, NJ USA
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    As has been stated, Roz has been doing this for years. The other guy I would get pics from was Ken Brown. The general take on these guys is that they're scum and use seedy business practices. What's even worse w/ Roz, is that not only does he send you unsolicited pictures w/ a bill, he also sends you unsolicited literature for his wife's investment counseling business.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    68

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    This is funny (Sort of)

    Who has the record for "owing" Roz money for the longest time?

    I have "owed" him money since 1990!

    I was running my E30 325 BMW in International Sedan at Lime Rock. I got pictures and a bill after that. This guys been pulling this stunt for a while.

    Dennis Baer shoots at Calclub races. He shows me the pics at the next race and asks me "if you want all the pictures it's $2.00 each" I always buy all the pics. Some I keep some I don't.
    John Norris
    #07 ITS/R BMW 325is
    #07 ITS BMW 325
    Sponsors:
    GREEN FLASH BEER
    GT International BMW Service since 1976

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeg View Post
    I buy what I want...there is no problem here.

    It is unsolicited and there is no obligation on your part to buy any or send them back.
    Except I got bill after bill from Roz...I have a two family, and my mail often lands in places where I don't get it. So I get bills for something I never saw. I shouldn't have to write a letter, pick up the phone or ANYthing unless I'm asking to get involved.

    And these days, the internet way is SO much easier and friendlier. Send me an email . Whatever, but don't send me bills with interest for a year.
    Jake Gulick


    CarriageHouse Motorsports
    for sale: 2003 Audi A4 Quattro, clean, serviced, dark green, auto, sunroof, tan leather with 75K miles.
    IT-7 #57 RX-7 race car
    Porsche 1973 911E street/fun car
    BMW 2003 M3 cab, sun car.
    GMC Sierra Tow Vehicle
    New England Region
    lateapex911(at)gmail(dot)com


  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
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    Connecticut
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    Quote Originally Posted by lateapex911 View Post
    ...but don't send me bills with interest for a year.
    If he wants to drop $0.44 each month (plus cost of envelope, paper, and toner) to give you something to start the wood stove with, let 'em.


  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    long valley, NJ
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    Over the years I got a lot of nice pictures from Roz for free. Some of the real old ones (1985ish) had a big black PROOF on them that wiped off. I'm still working through the guilt I feel for not paying, but I have 30 or so nice pics I otherwise would never have gotten. What's the problem?? Maybe I should send him a bill for the therapy?
    phil hunt

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Rockville, MD
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    274

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    Guys, it's not as bad as all that. Roz has been one of only three photographers who continuously comes to most races. He offers a a yearly package deal in advance and if you subscribe, you get tons of photos of your car from the event - some practice - some race. About the cost of one flat-spotted tire which isn't too shabby for a season's worth of pictures.
    One of the things I like about his shots are that he usually stands at the same spots throughout the weekend and has nice cornering shots. If you've made suspension adjustments, you get photographic evidence of the effects. If you continuously screw up a turn, you've got the telltale. Bonus after-the-fact test and tuning memento.
    Chuck

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    Concord, NH 03301
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    I am actually pretty impressed to see Roz continue this. After all, I have never met anyone who either bought his stuff or returned it which would eventually mean the only people who aren't on his black list are people who have just started racing. I've bitched to SCCA power's that be in the NE but never gotten a response.


    I just email the guy and tell him to let me know when he's coming by and I will be sure to leave the pictures on the porch, he can pick them up.

  20. #20
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    Sep 2008
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    Weare, NH
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMiskoe View Post
    ...I have never met anyone who either bought his stuff or returned it...

    sometimes I buy one or two, sometimes I return them all

    sheesh, you guys, take a chill pill

    if you don't get back to him, with prints or dollars,
    he will never send you more

    Glenn Lawton
    GSMmotorsports
    #14 ITS RX7
    NARRC ITS Champion 2012
    NERRC ITS Champion 2013 12 11 10 09 08
    NERRC STU Champion 2010

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