Head & Shoulder Restraint Kit

[jimalley]

I have a Kirkey Intermediate road race seat and think I want to add a "Head & Shoulder Restraint Kit".

I am interested if anyone has installed this kit and generally what people think the Pros & Cons may be.

[924Guy]

Unless you add some pretty substantial support to those bolsters, they're not much help in a serious impact - while substantially reducing ease of egress.

I have a Kirkey Economy seat (which I've crashed a few times)... and I chose to add a center net instead (from Safety Solutions). Cheaper, easier, and far more effective.

[jimalley]

I am thinking that the center net would be effective in restricting arm movement, but cannot imaging it retraining head movement. I use a Hans that restricts forward movement but imagine without side restraints that the head is tossed about severely in an incident.

[BruceG]

I am thinking that the center net would be effective in restricting arm movement, but cannot imaging it retraining head movement. I use a Hans that restricts forward movement but imagine without side restraints that the head is tossed about severely in an incident.

Jim....If the Kirkey head and sholder restraints are anything like the Butler Halo system(and I think they are) they should be a welcome addition to your safety items! Just look at the shunts they have in NASCAR(like the one at Daytona where the woman walked away from an upside down crash and series of flips last week). As regards exit from the vehicle, as they say down south "if you ain't alive, ya'll ain't goin nowhere anyway".

Practice your exit with halos...it may not be pretty but you'll make it out if the halo saved your life to start!

[dickita15]

I am thinking that the center net would be effective in restricting arm movement, but cannot imaging it retraining head movement. I use a Hans that restricts forward movement but imagine without side restraints that the head is tossed about severely in an incident.

Actually head movement is what the right side net is all about. It is set up to catch your shoulder and helmet so they stop movement in the same plane if you get a big right side hit. When I asked around a few years ago I was told that nothing gives you better protection for such a cheap price. I have actually been thinking about one of those sprint car nets for the left side.

[924Guy]

I have actually been thinking about one of those sprint car nets for the left side.

Stop thinking about it, and do it!!! There's NO excuse!!! They're dirt cheap compared to the improvement in safety - just like upgrading from the stock 3-pt belts to a proper 6-pt setup!

[ddewhurst]

Lets see now. For 2011 all SCCA drivers SHALL wear a SFI 38.1 H&N restraint. With the Isaac I own not SFI rated I'll buy (not happily) a Defnder which frontal load equals the Isaac & HANS while also greatly reducing the lateral load which the HANS does not do. No right side net required.

It's a laugh that the CRB/BoD recomends a right side net while not allowing the Isaac because of the one release rule. Yes I understand the window net rule to keep the arms inside the car. < This rule came long before the H&N restraint.

Dito on the silly unsuported head "restraint flaps" that may be added to the seat. Watch one video of the head during a crash you'll understand. The flaps resist minimal lateral load.

[924Guy]

I am thinking that the center net would be effective in restricting arm movement, but cannot imaging it retraining head movement. I use a Hans that restricts forward movement but imagine without side restraints that the head is tossed about severely in an incident.

Actually, the center net should be installed to spread from the shoulder to the CG of the helmet, catching both. I used to have a pic on my website showing this, lemme see if I can find it...

Some pics here...
http://vaughanscott.com/construction/safety.htm

OK, not a perfect picture, but should give an idea about the install config.


Note that I'm not fully cinched down in the seat yet - will sit a bit lower than even that. Plus the camera angle's a little high. When I lean over to the net, it does contact my helmet.

I've "used" it in this config, too, having been t-boned by a Volvo at the ARRC in '08. Worked like a charm, drove it away and completed the race.

[zchris]

Jim, if you want to try the defender on come on down to Holliston. I bought mine last year and like it. You really cannot flip your head side to side. Nice quick release tethers. Oh and thanks for the shocks. Chris Howard

[jimalley]

Chris, I will take you up on that offer. My car is down in your area so I will check in with you when I go down to pick it up. Is it any more restricting in turning your head side to side than the Hans?

[924Guy]

I do like the looks of the Defender; if I were staying in my IT car, I'd likely be shopping for one come 2012. As it is, since I'm moving to a DSR, I'll either be seeing if I can make a Safety Solutions device work or, be forced to get a HANS.

But there's a key point. Any of these devices with lateral restraining capability - ISAAC, Defender, or some of the S2 devices - can only work on the position of the head relative to the shoulders. In order for restraint to happen, the shoulders must first be stopped. This is the same situation as a straight-ahead impact; the hips must be stopped before the shoulders can be stopped, before the head can be stopped (by a H+N device). So you need good tight belts, and that's why 6-pts or 7-pts are better than 5 - they do a better job of restraining the pelvis.

So in order to get the full benefit of a side-impact protective H+N, you must first have something that will stop the shoulders. A side net will do this, or a containment seat. But as already stated, I much prefer the cost-effectiveness (and other factors) of the nets.

[jimalley]

Vaughan, all very good points.

In my case I will seriously think about utilizing both as the side net is such a small investment. Call it "Belts N Suspenders" but when it comes to heath and safety issues the additional cost shouldn't be a consideration

[924Guy]

In my case I will seriously think about utilizing both as the side net is such a small investment. Call it "Belts N Suspenders" but when it comes to heath and safety issues the additional cost shouldn't be a consideration

Absolutely; if you have the option (space and cost), by all means do so!

[ddewhurst]

***you must first have something that will stop the shoulders. A side net will do this***

Vaughan, safety is priority so don't take this the wrong way. Where did you find the data to back up your above statement, "a side net will do this". IMHJ, you way over estimate the capabilities of a right hand side net.

I'll take my Ultra Shield Pro road race seat, six point harness with a Defnder long before I'll skip the Defnder & use a right hand side net.

***So you need good tight belts,***

I would like to believe this ^ is normal process for all racers.

[924Guy]

***you must first have something that will stop the shoulders. A side net will do this***

Vaughan, safety is priority so don't take this the wrong way. Where did you find the data to back up your above statement, "a side net will do this". IMHJ, you way over estimate the capabilities of a right hand side net.

I'll take my Ultra Shield Pro road race seat, six point harness with a Defnder long before I'll skip the Defnder & use a right hand side net.

***So you need good tight belts,***

I would like to believe this ^ is normal process for all racers.

No problem. That comes direct from Tom Gideon, GM Racing, in a presentation some years back to the Waterford club. Direct from their (Corvette/GM Racing) crash testing.

He talked about lots of other really cool stuff they did too, but that was the big hitter, particularly with regard to cost-effectiveness.

[gsbaker]

With respect to lateral protection:



and,

[Jonathan]

The object of a good head restraint is to keep the head in contact with the BODY, not the seat belts. If the driver ever slips out of a shoulder belt your device would cause almost certain catastrophe. The reason the Hutchens device is no-longer allowed in Nascar is that it attaches the driver's head to the seatbelts instead of trying to tie it in with body position. This causes compression fractures in the spine. Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it's not possible. Your device has better numbers in testing because it attaches the head to the car and not the body holding it more in place, but that doesn't make it better. I'm not going to slam a device I've never used because 2 drivers I have worked with have died of the basilar skull fracture injury. Had they been wearing your device might they still be alive today? Quite possibly. But that doesn't mean your device has all of the benefits of the other devices. Single release for a quick exit isn't the only advantage even if that is the "technicality" they can use to make your device illegal. But dangers to the spine are FAR less by spending more money on a device that keeps the head positioned with the BODY instead of the SEAT BELTS. But I'm sure you know this. I hope you DO continue to find cost-effective means to keep all racers safe, but I believe your device is flawed and I wish you would be more up-front on all of the message boards you post on with the potential for spine injuries.

Jonathan McIntire

[gsbaker]

The object of a good head restraint is to keep the head in contact with the BODY, not the seat belts. If the driver ever slips out of a shoulder belt your device would cause almost certain catastrophe. The reason the Hutchens device is no-longer allowed in Nascar is that it attaches the driver's head to the seatbelts instead of trying to tie it in with body position. This causes compression fractures in the spine. Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it's not possible. Your device has better numbers in testing because it attaches the head to the car and not the body holding it more in place, but that doesn't make it better. I'm not going to slam a device I've never used because 2 drivers I have worked with have died of the basilar skull fracture injury. Had they been wearing your device might they still be alive today? Quite possibly. But that doesn't mean your device has all of the benefits of the other devices. Single release for a quick exit isn't the only advantage even if that is the "technicality" they can use to make your device illegal. But dangers to the spine are FAR less by spending more money on a device that keeps the head positioned with the BODY instead of the SEAT BELTS. But I'm sure you know this. I hope you DO continue to find cost-effective means to keep all racers safe, but I believe your device is flawed and I wish you would be more up-front on all of the message boards you post on with the potential for spine injuries.

Jonathan McIntire

In 20+ years dealing with biomechanics I don't believe I've ever seen so many misconceptions compressed into one paragraph.

Please read Melvin, Hubbard, Trammel et al.

[Jonathan]

See, this is what I've seen you do on other forums. Instead of coming back with an actual rebutal, you tell people you have the experience and the answer and it is the "evil sanctioning bodies" that are keeping you down. Then you tell me to read something written by the person who invented the HANS device.....um, that's why I'm buying his device, not yours.

As far as th qoute-unqoute .000001% chance time that something bad happens, the first race I ever worked in Cup was the race at Michigan where Ernie Irvan slipped out of his belts when he crashed in practice because they weren't tight enough and spent the next year learning to walk again. So I've seen it. And compared to my road car? I think pushing a vehicle to it's limits and putting it in places that is questionable is what racing is all about, so I think your chances of an accident are more than slightly increased from a road car. That was a rediculous comparison.

[Jonathan]

You said read Hubbard, so I did.

excerpt from The History Of The HANS Device As Told By Dr. Bob Hubbard
By Marty Tyler

http://www.catchfence.com/2006/persp...r-bob-hubbard/

“Then in about 1981, Jim Downing, who is my wife’s brother, had a friend of his, Patrick Jacquemart, go off the track at Mid-Ohio and run into an embankment with the front of his car. His torso was restrained, but, his head was unrestrained and he had a fracture of the base of his skull or the basilar skull fracture. Jim knew how Patrick was injured and he asked me what could be done about that. I had this background in head injury and injury assessment and had pit crewed for Jim having been interested in racing for some years and I came up with the idea of the HANS Device to restrain the head relative to the torso in a way that wouldn’t add injurious loads to the neck. My thinking was if I could keep the head on the shoulders then it wouldn’t stretch the neck, a pretty simple concept. I also thought of other ideas with straps, and so on, and didn’t pursue those because I didn’t think they would be as effective as the HANS.”

....it's the "restrain the head relative to the torso in a way that wouldn’t add injurious loads to the neck" that I refer to. Your device does not accomplish this.