What's going on with IT and the CRB?

[Butch Kummer]

Then what the hell kind of club is SCCA becoming, then??? Key members of the leadership are discouraged from using informal means to gauge the pulse of the membership? This stinks worse than I thought...Worse than I EVER thought...

Red - "Becoming"?

I'm not sure how new you are to the club, but it's not for nothing that the "Secret Car Club of America" moniker came into being. I used to think it was due to a lack of presence on the national scene, but I soon learned it's because things are often decided in smoke-filled back rooms. It goes back to when I first got involved back in the 70's and little has changed since.

. Thank you for your input.

. Car is classed appropriately.

. Against class philosophy.

i.e. - This is the decision, take it or leave it. In the old days a lot of people put up with it, but today they have a choice. Whether that's a better option or not is debatable, but there's a reason NASA came into being.

[RedMisted]

Red - "Becoming"?

I'm not sure how new you are to the club, but it's not for nothing that the "Secret Car Club of America" moniker came into being. I used to think it was due to a lack of presence on the national scene, but I soon learned it's because things are often decided in smoke-filled back rooms. It goes back to when I first got involved back in the 70's and little has changed since.

. Thank you for your input.

. Car is classed appropriately.

. Against class philosophy.

i.e. - This is the decision, take it or leave it. In the old days a lot of people put up with it, but today they have a choice. Whether that's a better option or not is debatable, but there's a reason NASA came into being.

Gotta apologize... I'm pretty new to SCCA. I'm in my third year of club racing. Before that, I was a member of NASA. But it was for a couple years so I could do their HPDEs.

Thanks for the history lesson. Didn't realize the genesis for NASA until now. Always thought NASA started up on the West Coast for some different reason.

OK, Secret Car Club of America...That in itself tells a story.

[IPRESS]

Chris that is why we have opinions, mine differs from yours. I agree we (the membership) elect people so in theory we have the final say, but because those elected don't do some things the way we want them to, doesn't mean they are doing the wrong thing.
This debate is more about power and governance and way less about the health of IT which is damn healthy and will probably stay that way....again just my opinion.
I have no problem with interested parties championing their side of an issue, but personal attacks and saying the committtees are a bunch of bums ou to screw IT is childish and flat wrong. All it does is get people pissed off on both sides of the issue.

[Andy Bettencourt]

And know that I believe this: IT is WAY better than it used to be. I think there is still some work to be done but the building blocks are in place. No class I would rather be in.

[924Guy]

And know that I believe this: IT is WAY better than it used to be. I think there is still some work to be done but the building blocks are in place. No class I would rather be in.

+1 to all that. Except I did find a class I'd rather be in.

Still care about IT, though. #1 priority IMO is to make sure we do NOT go back to the standard 3 BS/blowoff answers, as referenced by Butch. Those are simply NOT acceptable.

Maybe it's 'cause I'm an engineer; after all, in the practice of engineering, if you can't logically defend your position/conclusions dispassionately against any and all complaits/issues - it doesn't deserve to see the light of day.

Faith has no place in engineering, only facts. Speak with data. "I think" is a good way to kill people. The difference between a doctor and an engineer? If the doctor screws up, somebody dies. If the engineer screws up - hundreds, maybe thousands of people can die. (right Toyota? )

Doesn't sound like everyone's comfortable with that idea...

[924Guy]

Well you can't entirely take fault with the CRB for responding to a manufacturer - they are part of the racing landscape, like it or not, and it's unreasonable to suggest that we (as a club) could just ignore them.

I was given no impression that they are serving the purposes of the manufacturer; there was not enough information given to make any such assumptions.

Any suggestions or theories that this is what happen are simply the opinions of that poster, and NOT based on any facts. Unless they know something more and aren't sharing it...

Come on, guys, let's not find every possible reason to throw darts at the boards. That's the quickest way to making sure they don't listen to you at all.

Since I personally don't have the free time to march in there and take over the whole F'ing Club management, boards and all, and become king for a year or more - I'm going to commit myself to working through the system, and yes the people, that are currently doing the job.

When there is clear evidence of capricious, unreliable, or undesireable behaviour - I planning on being the loudest one calling that out to everyone and anyone.

When there is opportunity to provide contructive criticism and corrective measures, I plan to focus my energy on supporting those - not being the first to bitch up a storm.

It's just like being married; if you go digging for dirt, you're gonna find it, whether or not it's there.

If you intend on having a productive relationship - you have to plan to work WITH the other side of the equation...

[lateapex911]

Chris that is why we have opinions, mine differs from yours. I agree we (the membership) elect people so in theory we have the final say, but because those elected don't do some things the way we want them to, doesn't mean they are doing the wrong thing.
This debate is more about power and governance and way less about the health of IT which is damn healthy and will probably stay that way....again just my opinion.
I have no problem with interested parties championing their side of an issue, but personal attacks and saying the committtees are a bunch of bums ou to screw IT is childish and flat wrong. All it does is get people pissed off on both sides of the issue.

First, I hope my post haven't been characterized as personal attacks or saying that anyone is out to screw IT.

I DO disagree withe the bottom line of the members being the boss. My job as a committee member was described to me day one, and it included knowing my category and it's members.

My job on the ITAC was to protect and champion their first principles. Now, that might take various forms, but in the end, the big picture was to ensure that the category was true to the members desired cornerstones.

I've spoken to those who have gotten 'the other side of the story", and it's clear that they were not on the con calls, that the specific things I was told haven't been equally represented when the BoD is informed.

IT is in great shape, and it is in such good shape because of 5 years plus of work that has been circling in on tighter and tighter standards of operation. The wheels aren't about to fall of. But...I'm dismayed when I see cars being classed wrong, with no solid evidence, and in manners that are in direct contrast to the members expectations.

If you want to say "It's about power", fine. You've mentioned in the past your contacts have stated that the ITAC "Got too big for it's britches"... clearly, that's an opinion of those further up the line. I could care less about "power"...or the ego massaging that goes with it. I am worried about the power being applied improperly. I don't care who does it, just do it right. Be aboveboard. Be transparent. Be consistent. Be able to answer the members.

As hard as it might be for you to accept, this isn't about egos, at least not on my part. It's simple, it's about doing the right thing, and the members have defined that rather well. And they deserve to know what is going on. Good, and bad.