Probably the best fastrack I have read that actually explains most of the decisions made. Big thumbs up to CRB and BOD at better communication.
Steve Eckerich
ITS 18 Speedsource RX7
ITR RX8 (under construction)
ITA1. #381 (Evan Darling) Review ITA E30 BMWs
In 9.1.3, ITA, BMW E30 318is (88-91), change from 2600 lbs. to2430 lbs.
ITB1. #378 (Todd Engelman) Reduce weight of the 320iIn 9.1.3, ITB, BMW 320i 2.0 (77-79), change from 2510 lbs. to 2340 lbs.
How was this allowed? I thought it was against the rules to change the weigthts?
Raymond
RST Performance Racing
www.rstperformance.com
Sounds like the "formula" was re-run on them under the Errors and Omissions allowance? The really odd thing is that I thought the BOD put the kibosh on this recently...
Christian
Christian in FL | Something white with Honda on the valve cover...
FASTtech Limited- DL1, Schroth, & Recaro Goodness
LTB Motorsports- The Cheapest Place for Momo
TrackSpeed Motorsports- OMP, Racetech, & Driver Gear
I'm kind of confused. At the beginning they are talking about wanting feedback and item #471 is GCR and Vintage CR changes. They want to mandate any car with a log book registered after 1/1/11 have a fuel cell? Is that just a Vintage thing or a full GCR thing. It may be too early in the morning and not enough caffeine yet, but is that how others read it as a full GCR thing?
Spanky | #73 ITA 1990 Honda Civic WDCR SOLD | #73 ITA 1995 Honda Civic WDCR in progress |
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"ITB – (Multiple) Review ITB weight of MR2
The car is classed appropriately."
"IT – #236 (Grafton Robertson) December weight reduction violates ITCS
Thank you for your input. The weight was not a competition adjustment; it was a correction because an error in the initial
classification was found."
The MR2's weight was was an error that was agreed upon. Do they actually think that the motor can make 30%? I mean in 25 years years they think that not a single person made an attempt? I know of two guys that have over 10k each in there motors and netneir is making 25%. So on top of that we get another 50lb adder for balance? you don't think that balance is affected when you classify the car nearly 20% more than the factory weight?
I wish I got more than the traditional response.
Track Speed Motorsports
http://www.trackspeedmotorsports.com/
Steven Ulbrik (engineer/crew/driver)
[email protected]
That's a real shame Steve, and I feel for you and anyone else in the same situation. What worked for me was a direct request for what issue I wanted to considered, why I thought it should be considered, and supporting evidence. Then once I submitted it, if it was denied I was preparing myself for the "not advisable at this time" response. The web-based tracking worked well and kept me informed of who was considering my request. Maybe you can submit it again in a few months.
STU BMW Z3 2.5liter
Prior to my leaving the ITAC, we were explicitly told that adjustments precisely like were applied in these two cases were in violation of the GCR. The term that was floating around conversations among committee members was that we "got our hand caught in the cookie jar."
And you are now officially part of the problem rather than the solution, Jeff. Welcome to the Secret Car Club of America. If there's information you can share one-on-one with anyone who will ask - IT'S PUBLIC. If it's PUBLIC, it should be hashed out, uh, IN PUBLIC.The CRB has asked that we not hash some of this out in public, but will tell you what I know privately. ...
What utter crap.
K
I won't delete the below, but screw it, it's wrong. Kirk is right, at least on the fact that this stuff should be discussed in public.
Here's where things stand. Note that I do not think the CRB is out to screw IT, etc. I just think we have a disagreement on some basic principles with the CRB in general, and on this car in particular. They are:
1. GENERAL: When can we apply errors and omissions to correct car weights? The CRB's position on this now seems to be that they will allow fixes to "gross" mistakes (my word, not theirs). There is no real definition of what triggers this.
2. GENERAL: The CRB does not like the use of stock hp in the process.
3. GENERAL: The CRB does not like the 25% default IT gain multiplier we use.
4. SPECIFIC: The CRB thinks that 16V motors have the potential for more than 25% gain, and also that there is no reason to change the weight on this car as it was just classed in ITB last year (? year before?).
The ITAC's position is simple. The car may make 25% at best, and the classification at the higher weight was an error.
*******************
Or, the "problem" is that good folks give up the fight at the first sign of trouble.
But I digress.
I agree that most of this stuff should be discussed in public. There are some things about the MR2 that are in the grey area for me as to whether internal committee discussions -- it was heated -- should be made public.
The board we report to has asked that we not disclose this stuff on the internet boards right now. I am willing to abide by that for now, and at the same time tell people who ask what I know. I see that as the lesser of two evils, the other evil being that we have an ITAC with NO members on it that believe in the process, etc. I agree that's not logically consistent, but it is the best I can do right now.
I do think it is an entirely fair question to ask of the CRB, and discuss in public, why errors and omissions adjustments were made to some cars, even after we were told no.
Last edited by JeffYoung; 01-22-2010 at 02:05 PM. Reason: I was wrong
NC Region
1980 ITS Triumph TR8
Glad that you caught the error of your ways with Kirk's assistance. This is a club, by members for members. Members, including committee members, should be able to discuss what they wish as it pertains to the racing classes that they, and we, John Q Public, participate in.
Last edited by Ron Earp; 01-22-2010 at 02:47 PM.
not against the rules if the weights were off...The 318is (88-91) needed this to be anywhere near competitive. I still do not know if the car will be competitive as even with an IT build it will be slightly down on power compared to its competition (taking aero and other factors into consideration i.e suspension design etc). But at least it is closer and maybe more will be built now as it is a viable option. The E21 (2.0) at its weight should be good as well and they just need to follow suit with the E21 1.8 now. Considering the VW GTI 1.8 (both C.I.S) weights and power gains compared to the BMW version they are getting closer.
Evan Darling
ITR BMW 325is build started...
SM (underfunded development program)
SEDIV ITA Champion 2005
sometimes racing or crewing Koni Sports Car Challenge
You guys PM me and I'll tell you what I know. The CRB has asked that we not hash some of this out in public, but will tell you what I know privately.
NC Region
1980 ITS Triumph TR8
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