Feb Fastrack

[irondragon]

Seems to me that ITAC listens to requests for change, and then sends a decision on to CRB.
CRB's process is opaque and impenetrable. Their decisions are rendered and that's that. No further input from members wanted! And don't even try an e-mail.

Matt's reference to the HANS decision is right on target.

So what's going on? Who decided that SCCA was to be a top down dictatorship when it comes to members asking for explanations?

In a time of quick and easy communication, this situation is unjustified.

Seems similar to France in the late 1790's - and they had a real revolution.
Let's start bringing the tumbrils to the False Grid.

Bill Miskoe

[JLawton]

Just filed my first CRB request asking for weight equality between 92-95 Civic EX and 92-95 Civic Si. I have no idea why they are off by 25 lbs when then cars are identical except for the wheelbase and body style.

25 lbs?? You're kidding, right? Why are you dickin' around for 25 lbs?


.

[Knestis]

I feel strongly that 25 pounds, while not enough to be more than lap-to-lap human error noise for a typical club racer, is enough to be meaningful from a organizational point of view. If two cars are the same based on the criteria, they should weigh the same. If we allow them to be 25 pounds different then why not 50? 100? 300? There's right and there's all of the other options and as long as we are OK with "other," we leave room for shady crap, or the appearances and accusations of shady crap.

K

[Bill Miller]

I feel strongly that 25 pounds, while not enough to be more than lap-to-lap human error noise for a typical club racer, is enough to be meaningful from a organizational point of view. If two cars are the same based on the criteria, they should weigh the same. If we allow them to be 25 pounds different then why not 50? 100? 300? There's right and there's all of the other options and as long as we are OK with "other," we leave room for shady crap, or the appearances and accusations of shady crap.

K

That's pretty much it Jeff. If they go in w/ the same specs, they should come out w/ the same specs. Really has nothing to do w/ how trivial 25# is.

[lateapex911]

yea, as far as I'm concerned, take the request, punch the numbers, recommend the outcome. Then the CRB does what they will with it.

It's not for me to say, but I imagine they wouldn't be thrilled with that recommendation. From the ITACs point of view, it then becomes a question of political capital. The CRB has shown an "end result" point of view...does 25 pounds matter on the track??

The ITAC looks more at the process and being consistent and letting the chips fall where they may. If they fall way out of line, it's time to examine the process, and figure out what's going awry., and if needed, adjust the process as the analysis shows.

But that's, I think, a difference in the bodies philosophy.

So yea, submit it, but....

[Flyinglizard]

25# is a tenth of a second on a 16 sec. lap with our minstock.
It does matter enough to bitch when the racing gets close. Ask any front running SM guy , what his car weighs after the race. Mine is 6# over, If it is 8#, I made a mistake. MM

[JLawton]

I feel strongly that 25 pounds, while not enough to be more than lap-to-lap human error noise for a typical club racer, is enough to be meaningful from a organizational point of view. If two cars are the same based on the criteria, they should weigh the same. If we allow them to be 25 pounds different then why not 50? 100? 300? There's right and there's all of the other options and as long as we are OK with "other," we leave room for shady crap, or the appearances and accusations of shady crap.

K

I was coming more from a stand point that there are sooo many cars out there that are far out of whack, are we just going to clog up the process by submitting peanuts? Yes, I will be one of the first to actually admit that I am being self serving because my car is off by 100+ lbs.......

[lateapex911]

I think your letter was read, considered and the recommendation was sent up the line by the ITAC,,,

[mossaidis]

I feel strongly that 25 pounds, while not enough to be more than lap-to-lap human error noise for a typical club racer, is enough to be meaningful from a organizational point of view. If two cars are the same based on the criteria, they should weigh the same. If we allow them to be 25 pounds different then why not 50? 100? 300? There's right and there's all of the other options and as long as we are OK with "other," we leave room for shady crap, or the appearances and accusations of shady crap.

K

Thank K.

Jeff, I am not being petty in the least bit. You know I have lots to change to my car before I become a front runner... overbore, shocks/springs, FD, spherical bushings, re-tune, (my) balls, etc. I am simply, and in my own little world, pointing out a potential discrepancy/flaw. My request (though with some grammatical errors given it was written late night) asked the fundamental question of why the difference and my request to adjust weight. I sit in my office 9-7 everyday and I don't have the resources or time to prove you or CRB that a ported CRX has a 41% IT gain vs. MR2's 10% gain OR even look at other civic models outside my years of expertise. Once my car is in full IT trim, I would more than happy to submit a dyno and configuration sheet to the ITAC in which in inform them that my car has reached its max in terms of hp/weight.

In the meantime, hugs kisses and Teresa says hi. We'll see you in June at LRP, unless you pay us a visit in NYC. Mickey

[mossaidis]

25# is a tenth of a second on a 16 sec. lap with our minstock.
It does matter enough to bitch when the racing gets close. Ask any front running SM guy , what his car weighs after the race. Mine is 6# over, If it is 8#, I made a mistake. MM

I am NOT bitching... I have asked why is there a discrepancy and if it's not justified to simply correct it. It might mean that the CRB/ITAC increases the Civic EX weight by 25. I can care less which may they go.

The lot of you should be looking for other discrepencies, justifity your reasons and submit them to the ITAC/CRB for review. This is how the process works and they only way it will change - small steps in "corrective evolution".