2010 NEDiv Roundtable

[Andy Bettencourt]

I'm not running for the NARRC this year but I thought the schedule was excellent. One drop ought to be included, but sheesh - take it easy folks - they got this darn 100% close to what the drivers have been asking for...

Except one of the most critcal Ben. How the Champions are crowned.

[lateapex911]

I have only the faintest notion of how difficult it is to organize a group of groups and come up with a schedule. It seems like the schedule is pretty good, and that's really difficult. So huge attaboys to those responsible.


But it IS perplexing how the drop concept got lost.

How hard would it be to go to the organizers and ask that it be reinstated? I don't see why it would be hard. It's not like they've printed programs, or the season has started. Clearly the drivers want drops.

And it makes business sense for them to do that. I like the schedule, and I'd consider doing those races, which is more than I was considering earlier, but if I have to hit EVERY one of them, I'll just forget the idea and cherry pick things. Less things. I bet I'm not alone in that.


Simple point of fact, as Dick points out, we have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to dates and events. Too many races. We have to tempt people to stretch their resources to attend them. Forcing them will end in rejection.

Great job by the PTB on the schedule and pacing though, all things considered.

[dtanthon]

Did anyone email committee @ narrc.com to ask the committee to possibly change the 2010 NARRC rules or is this just the usual circle jerk on this forum?

[Andy Bettencourt]

Did anyone email committee @ narrc.com to ask the committee to possibly change the 2010 NARRC rules or is this just the usual circle jerk on this forum?

I am formulating my newest letter. I have sent 2. 1 of which was the summation of driver feedback which included all the bullets and all the raw feedback.

[StephenB]

Did anyone email committee @ narrc.com to ask the committee to possibly change the 2010 NARRC rules or is this just the usual circle jerk on this forum?

Email is sent

[mossaidis]

Did anyone email committee @ narrc.com to ask the committee to possibly change the 2010 NARRC rules or is this just the usual circle jerk on this forum?

Some things need momentum before you can act... that's how all good riots get started.

[lawtonglenn]

.

hmmmm....my daughter's HS graduation... or the 6/19 NARRC race....

Graduation, ...so I guess the best I can do is 7 of the 8 NARRC races....

No Drops?...I guess that means I won't be in NARRC contention...

hmmm...I guess that makes my decision easy...I will race the 8/21 NERRC Double at NHMS instead of the 8/21 NARRC Double at NJMPT... so now that's only 5 of the 8

Since I'm running only 5 of the 8, I am not as motivated to tow all the way to WGI... so I'm in for 3 of the 8

If it were best 6 (2 drops)...my decisions would be different

.

[StephenB]

I am in the same position as you so the drive to NJ is out for me since I can't win without a drop... starting other plans now!

[Jeremy Billiel]

Did anyone email committee @ narrc.com to ask the committee to possibly change the 2010 NARRC rules or is this just the usual circle jerk on this forum?

While the comments here Darrell may feel like an attack its not personal. The comments I made are directed at all regions as this is a broader problem then any one region.

With that said, I stand by my comments as 100% of these decisions are a result of stupid region politics that will ultimately destroy some regions over time. New England is just lucky that NASA and other orginazations to date have not been able to get their act together.

[Andy Bettencourt]

While the comments here Darrell may feel like an attack its not personal. The comments I made are directed at all regions as this is a broader problem then any one region.

With that said, I stand by my comments as 100% of these decisions are a result of stupid region politics that will ultimately destroy some regions over time. New England is just lucky that NASA and other orginazations to date have not been able to get their act together.

I am not so sure I agree with Jeremy. We have tons of tracks and tons or geat events sponsored by the SCCA. This is simply a NARRC Championship discussion. They nailed it this year with tracks and events and almost on dates...it's the best its been in years. Fixing the drop issue would put it in a nice place. Glenn's issues define what happens.

[dtanthon]

If you look close you will see that I am NOT on the NARRC Committee so my email to said Committee will happen tonight. I'm just the NARRC webmaster.

All this region politic BS is amazing, all 4 regions get along rather well from what I experienced and have seen. I was in a NEDiv Meeting Improvement session that conflicted with the NARRC meeting or I would have been in the NARRC meeting. A few drivers hung out after receiving their awards and attended the NARRC meeting I've been told.

But I'm the NNJR Treasurer as well as 'acting' NNJR Race Planning Chair. We were quite upset that we had to cancel Pocono for 2010, we will ask Pocono for a NARRC date in 2011 we just don't know what will be offered. Pocono is a very good event for NNJR, we have been doing this event for 20+ years, dropping it because of the Pro event conflict at NJMP splitting the work force hurt us for the 2010 season before it even got started. I would like to see the NHMS September event added as a NARRC but that didn't happen.

We need to have the 1000 point threshold lowered due to less events.
I'm glad to see no NARRC fee once again in 2010.

The NARRC drivers asked for an event at NJMP, that is why it is on the calendar. What are the odds that the July and August dates offered by NJMP would be the same weekends as NHMS offered. Hopefully the odds of that happening in 2011 will be slim. The July race at NHMS and August race at NJMP are NARRC.

So write your emails. This is the only forum I look at so if other groups feel the same way the only way the committee will know is if you email them.

Last note, I finally got a new job I start on Monday. I'll most likely only run Pro IT and NARRC at NJMP so the schedule and drops don't matter. I hope to get out to see the Pro IT races since that has to be one of the best races around. We have a few more ITR cars so those funds should be better this season.

[ner88]

Can someone please explain to me what you all think goes on between regions???
You all talk about politics and think we as organizers sneak around and do things that are not in your best interest??
Sometimes what is best for you isn't necessarly best for the good of others.
I'm a racer 1st, I represent NER so I/we can all continue to race into the future, I have no personal agenda other than to keep the tradition going.
As I have said in the past I go out and talk to the racers, not just in my region, and listen.
This forum isn't the voice of everyone but only a small minority.
NASA....PLEASE, Give me a break!

[Greg Amy]

Can someone please explain to me what you all think goes on between regions???...You all talk about politics and think we as organizers sneak around and do things that are not in your best interest??

Actually, Jerry, from my perspective I think nothing goes on between regions; I think the regions fail to sneak around and do things in the racers' best interests.

Some cases in point:

• June 4th weekend: Pro-IT at NJMP and Regional at NHMS.
• June 18th weekend: School/Regional at LRP and Enduro at NJMP.
• July 10th weekend: Double Regional at NHMS and Regional/National at NJMP and National at WGI!!!
• August 14th weekend: Regional/National at Pocono and Pro-IT at NJMP
• August 20th weekend: Regional at NJMP and Regional/Enduro at NHMS

And that's just picking a few at random! And we want to complain about not having enough workers??? Holy-Kerrist on peanut butter, I'd LOVE it if you guys would get together for a little "racketeering"...!!!

Regions have to recognize -- and I'm sorry if I sound like a broken record -- that racers in general don't give a rat's ass what SCCA region sanctions the event. I don't scan the calendars for region name; in fact, I usually have to ask the registrars at the track registration window to whom I have to write the check! I personally don't care, all I care about is uno) it's an SCCA event, and duo) it's at such-and-such a track on such-and-such a weekend. If the regions start thinking in reality, that being a region is nothing more than a commodity that has the opportunity to host an event, then I suspect these regions would work together better and things would be done a whole lot different...

Dick's right: we have an embarrassment of riches. But there's no reason we have to abuse it.

GA

[ner88]

What you're saying is if SNJ wants to run an event, NER should not? Why not?
It's called freedom of choice.
You might find this hard to believe but many do care what region puts on the event.
And a lot of them are loyal workers.

[gran racing]

It's called freedom of choice.
You might find this hard to believe but many do care what region puts on the event.

Freedom of choice? Oh come on Jerry. All regions are a part of one club and need to work together. At least as far as drivers, I'm with Greg. I'm also not convinced that workers are so caring about what region is hosting an event but rather the location of the event, the timing, and how good of an event it will be. The majority of the same workers are seen at a track regardless of whose hosting it. And honestly, that's the way it should be unless we don't want regions working together for a common goal.

I also wouldn't be so quick to dismiss NASA. Sure, they do not have a good racing program in the N.E. but doesn't mean it's out of the question from happening.

[ner88]

Dave
Sorry, but you haven't got a clue.

Ah, the world according to Improvedtouring!

[lateapex911]

Dicks right, we have an embarrassment of riches. At the same time, we have a shortage of resources. And Jerry's right, it's freedom of choice.

And in the end the free market will decide these things.

I live outside NYC on the CT coast. If I draw a circle from my house that is a 5 hour tow, I'm at NHMS in 3.5, WGI in 5 LRP in 1.5, Pocono in 3.5, NJMP in 4 or so. (And then there's Palmer, maybe)

So for me, conflicting event weekends are certainly a decision. But honestly, it's probably irrelevant whether they are on the SAME date, as I'm not super likely to attend both on back to back weekends.

And, yes, it's freedom of choice that a Region hosts an event, and it's my choices as to which one to attend. But, do we have enough racers (a resource to the region) and do we have enough workers (another resource) to support the number of events?

The market will decide that.

As for Region desirability, as a long time NER member, racer, worker and supporter, honestly, the region hosting the event isn't high on my list of priorities when choosing an event. The event (double, single, etc), the track, the date and how it fits my other races and life events, are all much higher priorities. Given the choice of a double at NHMS run by NER (known great events) and a double at Watkins Glen, I'll tow the 3 hours round trip extra to the Glen, unless there are points that I need to get for a championship at stake in NHMS.
I can't speak for all racers, but I'd be surprised that my view wasn't the majority view. I DO think the workers though, are much more region centric. But, they are tempted by the chance to work pro events... everybody has his weak spot, LOL.

In the end Jerry, I think it boils down to the use of the resources available. If the regions can make a go of it, and not burn up the resources, then fine. But I've seen signs that the resources run thin at times. Think Lime Rock and MoHud) It's a tough act to balance, that's for sure, and I know you've got shoes that not many would be able to, or willing to fill!

[StephenB]

Being an NER member for almost 25 years I still don't care which region is hosting the event. I care about car counts and on track competition. This is why I decided not to do the Pro-it this year. And I think the TeamDI pro-it series is by far the best series that I have ever witnessed for IT in the northeast. They truely understand what the drivers like and how to do it! Longer races, big events, fun atmosphere, podiums with awards and pictures, a cool website...ect. they are the goal and what i feel should be the expextations and example for the NARRC. even the NARRC Runoffs (new englands largest event) cant compaire. For me though even with all that... the car counts were low in ITB and I missed racing with all the other regular NARRC competitors. The regions, doing what Greg shows, are hurting car counts and ruining what i enjoy about SCCA in the northeast. I think they ARE lucky others aren't around...

Stephen
Those businesses that don't see their competition are their own competition.

[gran racing]

Dave
Sorry, but you haven't got a clue.

Ah, the world according to Improvedtouring!

You're too much Jerry. Yeah, cause people including myself only live in the it.com world. Get over yourself.

[Greg Amy]

What you're saying is if SNJ wants to run an event, NER should not? Why not? It's called freedom of choice. You might find this hard to believe but many do care what region puts on the event. And a lot of them are loyal workers.

Jerry, please. Stop taking this personally, and stop dredging out the tired "but we're volunteers and immune from criticism!" card. It's becoming pitiful.

Yes, Jerry, I'm all for "freedom of choice" (and I love America, my mother, General Motors, and apple pie, too). But you can't sit there behind the keyboard and accuse drivers of accusing the regions of "cohorting" against the drivers, when it's patently clear that they're not (much to everyone's detriment). So these regions wants to pretend that they're each acting in a vacuum, as if their customer base is unique, and they want to play these silly little inter-regional power politics -- politics, that no one except the regional administrators give two shakes about. After all, we're not talking about Rocky Mountain and Northeast divisions - divisions separated by thousands of miles - here; these are two regions in the same division!!!

Jerry, are you telling me you're shocked ("shocked", I say!) that entry lists for these two tracks contain many of the same drivers, especially those located within the geographic space between the two tracks? As shocking as it may sound, the answer to your question in regard to what regions should do about weekend conflicts is...YES! yes, they should coordinate. If a region within the same division is hosting an event only a few hours away, it's a damn fine idea for regions to coordinate who should hold a race that weekend! It just makes sense! Is that a surprising answer to you? I sincerely hope not. 'Cause if you guys WOULD get together and coordinate, I think you'll find increased entry numbers, lower risks of financial distress, and happier drivers who won't continue to feel like unwilling pawns in a silly, pointless intra-club rivalry.

Here's the deeper thing though, Jerry: this is a systemic problem, not a problem of an individual person such as yourself. The systemic problem is this silliness of the regional power politics. It's not something that you, Jerry, can resolve on your own, but it is something that you can influence. If the regions keep scheduling events without trying to work together they forfeit the rights to complain about the easily-predicted results, including lower entry turnouts, lower revenue, potential lack of "profit" at some events, complaining drivers, and, catastrophically, potentially bankrupted regions, all done at the expense of one or more regions' success. How, when one - or both! - events may not be financially successful that anyone within the division can call this a "win"? How, when the entries are being split among numerous events, can the entrants feel like the event they chose to attend was worthwhile?

Where's the success or "goodness" here? This results in nothing but the good ole "lose, lose". And if we continue to do so, it will be without empathy - or ignorance - from me.

In the end, just can't fix these systemic problems by offering a regional championship plaque at the end of the year...

GA