Fuel Cell Questions

[spnkzss]

Ended up buying an Enduro 22 gal Fuel Safe Cell. It has this fill plate.
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/Ima...6X10E-PLUS.JPG

The cap is threaded. They have to make an elbow that can screw on to that, correct? Or do you have to replace the fill plate all together just to get something that a hose for remote fill can attach to?

[DoubleXL240Z]

Buy appropriate elbow, hand it to welder, reinstall once welded correctly. Many tubing manufacturers out there, steel alum etc.
Woolfaircraft.com for example
burns stainless for another

[pdqracer]

I assume you are trying to put a remote fuel fill in the car. Having said that, the remote fuel cell "plate has a few other features you don't have on the one you have. In the remote cell plate, the breaather vent is also remotely mounted on the car. Otherwise the cell will pressure lock when you pour the fuel in and it will not flow.
Go the the Fuel Safr web page and look at the on line catalog

[TomL]

Maybe I'm missing some thing, but why do you need to do anything other than clamp the appropriate hose to the filler neck (using a pre-bent hose if you need to have an angle)? I've done that on cells that had a straight filler neck, and have had no problems.

Somebody may argue that you need to have a raised ring on the end of the filler to prevent the hose coming off, but I don't buy it. The pressures involved are minimal. In fact, one cell I used for many years had a NASCAR filler neck with no ring yet I managed to do fast refills (like 11 gallons in 5 seconds - it was fun to watch the cell expand from the air pressure!) with no problems.

Bottom line - just clamp on a hose and you'll be fine.

[seckerich]

The remote fill plate for these cells have a roll over valve (checkball) that stops fuel flow if the hose is torn off or you are inverted. Many will say that the cap at the end of the hose you are being told to use is good enough. Go back and watch Dale JR about burn up in a corvette if you believe that. His was trapped fuel in the filler as it was torn off. You will have fuel that can run back up the neck all the time. Your call, but very stupid when the cell is inside with you. Check ebay as there are always remote fill plates lised pretty cheap with a check valve.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FUEL-...Q5fCarQ5fParts

[TomL]

Steve - I'm not sure if I understand the point you are making (and whether you are addressing my comment or the original question and picture.) All FT-3 spec cells that I am aware of use a flapper-style valve to keep fuel in the cell if the filler neck is torn off, except for the NASCAR spec cells with the two ball system. I'm sure the OP has a flapper on his cell plate. I don't think anyone considers the screw on cap as a substitute for a check valve. Are you saying that only the NASCAR-style valve is safe? Either system is designed to perform the same function, just in a different manner. The differences I see are that the NASCAR system is a bit more positive IF the car is inverted, or at least close to inverted. The balls may not close at all if the car is only resting on its side but still somewhat upright. The flappers work pretty much any time fuel tries to escape, but might not be quite as positive. Is there some info you have that the flappers don't work reliably?
Obviously, you need to have a means of keeping the fuel in the cell if a filler neck is torn off, but I assumed that was the case. And if you don't, NO remote fill is safe in a crash.

On the Dale jr fire, my understanding was that the problem was the design of the refueling neck, and that the fill plate was on the side of the cell. As I understood the design, the dry breaks and check valves were at the side of the car and connected to the cell by two aluminum necks. In the crash, the left side tire supposedly tore one or both of the necks and provided an open escape for the gas above the fill plate (since it was on the side.) When GM redesigned the system, I saw that they used an extended filler probe to plug directly into the side of the cell (i.e., a flush mount). If you have better information on that episode, let us know and I may reconsider my recommendation.

[spnkzss]

Yes, the one I currently have has a roll over flapper installed.

I thought about strapping it to what's there, just assumed it was bad practice.

[seckerich]

Steve - I'm not sure if I understand the point you are making (and whether you are addressing my comment or the original question and picture.) All FT-3 spec cells that I am aware of use a flapper-style valve to keep fuel in the cell if the filler neck is torn off, except for the NASCAR spec cells with the two ball system. I'm sure the OP has a flapper on his cell plate. I don't think anyone considers the screw on cap as a substitute for a check valve. Are you saying that only the NASCAR-style valve is safe? Either system is designed to perform the same function, just in a different manner. The differences I see are that the NASCAR system is a bit more positive IF the car is inverted, or at least close to inverted. The balls may not close at all if the car is only resting on its side but still somewhat upright. The flappers work pretty much any time fuel tries to escape, but might not be quite as positive. Is there some info you have that the flappers don't work reliably?
Obviously, you need to have a means of keeping the fuel in the cell if a filler neck is torn off, but I assumed that was the case. And if you don't, NO remote fill is safe in a crash.

On the Dale jr fire, my understanding was that the problem was the design of the refueling neck, and that the fill plate was on the side of the cell. As I understood the design, the dry breaks and check valves were at the side of the car and connected to the cell by two aluminum necks. In the crash, the left side tire supposedly tore one or both of the necks and provided an open escape for the gas above the fill plate (since it was on the side.) When GM redesigned the system, I saw that they used an extended filler probe to plug directly into the side of the cell (i.e., a flush mount). If you have better information on that episode, let us know and I may reconsider my recommendation.

You are correct on the filler setup on the Vette. Dry break system was a good ways from the cell and his wreck was on exit of pit road so all the fuel was still in the vent and fill side of the system. Can easily be a couple gallons. I am not a big fan of flapper valves for sealing and the new trap door setup is a little better short of a real check valve system. Big problem is venting the cell for filling without either a dual setup or a descriminator valve. Personal preference but what you have will work, just not optimal. The good check systems have a light spring on the check ball to seal unless you are actively fueling.

[TomL]

Thanks, Steve. So if I understand you correctly, your main concern is that the standard flapper valve doesn't work quite as well as a NASCAR ball system (or the newer Fuel Safe flapper that's designed for remote fill, I guess). I understand the concern about fuel in the filler neck as well - it's outside the cell and it's unconstrained if the neck is torn off. However, that's a problem with any remote fill setup, regardless of what kind of check system you have. Even the NASCAR system with the balls and a positive closing vent will spill any gas that's in the filler neck, if it's ripped off.

I guess the answer is to run a series where you don't ever have to fill the cell completely full.