2010 race groups for the I.T.SPEC*tacular

[spnkzss]

Screw it, put SM in Group 1 then, and have ITA in Group 3 or later for the double-dippers.


(For the record, ITA was in Group 1 last year, and that's not conducive to our Saturday night drinking. So I hereby request, on behalf of the ITA community, to not put us in Group 1 two years in a row.)

I figured since I'm going to bee a noob I couldn't request that.

[Racerlinn]

I will
My proposed schedule (which is worth less than $0.02):

Group 1 SM, SSM
Group 2 ITB, ITS
Group 3 SRF, EP, FP, HP
Group 4 ITA, IT7, ITC
Group 5 ITR, ITE, AS, STO, STU
Group 6 FF, CFF, FC, CFC

Allows double dipping Miatii, makes Miata drivers and stewards happy (that was an ugly deal last year with them), and lets the majority of IT folks see each others race groups.
Sunday morning in the rain this year was interesting, and I tried to be good and actually went to bed "early" :toast:

[TAC]

I will
My proposed schedule (which is worth less than $0.02):

Group 1 SM, SSM
Group 2 ITB, ITS
Group 3 SRF, EP, FP, HP, GTL
Group 4 ITA, IT7, ITC
Group 5 ITR, ITE, AS, STO, STU
Group 6 FF, CFF, FC, CFC, FE, FM

Allows double dipping Miatii, makes Miata drivers and stewards happy (that was an ugly deal last year with them), and lets the majority of IT folks see each others race groups.
Sunday morning in the rain this year was interesting, and I tried to be good and actually went to bed "early" :toast:

O.K., first race meeting is over and the classes are set. So after a long pause I can say I like this order. Though I may switch group 5 and 6 since the formula group was last in 2008. Only other issue is whether the SM/SSM group will then be ruining steward lunch time both days. I guess that's better than goin' home time both evenings.

[R2 Racing]

So is this the grouping then?

Group 1 SM, SSM
Group 2 ITB, ITS
Group 3 SRF, EP, FP, HP, GTL
Group 4 ITA, IT7, ITC
Group 5 ITR, ITE, AS, STO, STU
Group 6 FF, CFF, FC, CFC, FE, FM

I'm ok with that.

[TAC]

So is this the grouping then?

Group 1 SM, SSM
Group 2 ITB, ITS
Group 3 SRF, EP, FP, HP, GTL
Group 4 ITA, IT7, ITC
Group 5 ITR, ITE, AS, STO, STU
Group 6 FF, CFF, FC, CFC, FE, FM

I'm ok with that.

I'm thinking more like this.

Group 1 SM, SSM
Group 2 ITB, ITS
Group 3 SRF, EP, FP, HP, GTL
Group 4 ITA, IT7, ITC
Group 5 FF, CFF, FC, CFC, FE, FM
Group 6 ITR, ITE, AS, STO, STU

[jumbojimbo]

One question on double dipping, why do we generally charge so much for double dipping? Double dippers don't cost us that much in sanction and insurance do they?

I know we're trying to maximize our income, but the number of double dippers is very low.

Why don't we charge a more nominal fee like $125? Sure, profit is less per car but wouldn't a ridiculously low entry fee encourage a double dipping?

My thought is that the more cars who double dip then that pads the field. And what increases car count more than anything else? Car count. People want to race in races with big fields. Even mid-level drivers want someone to race against. So if you can get more people to double dip and this causes even 1 or 2 extra regular entries, then you've got win-win all around.

Another scenario: STU. I've thought about running STU just for the track time. But it's too expensive at the full price. If the price were $125, I might be able to convince a couple of other ITC guys to run. We wouldn't be running to win STU, but all we care about is racing each other anyway. As long as we stay out of everyone else way, we get more track time, club makes more money.

[R2 Racing]

I'd double-dip too and bring our new ITB '92 Civic DX in addition to my ITA Integra if I knew I wasn't paying 2x entry fees. I really want to see what that ITB car will do at Mid Ohio.

[TAC]

One question on double dipping, why do we generally charge so much for double dipping? Double dippers don't cost us that much in sanction and insurance do they?

I know we're trying to maximize our income, but the number of double dippers is very low.

Why don't we charge a more nominal fee like $125? Sure, profit is less per car but wouldn't a ridiculously low entry fee encourage a double dipping?

My thought is that the more cars who double dip then that pads the field. And what increases car count more than anything else? Car count. People want to race in races with big fields. Even mid-level drivers want someone to race against. So if you can get more people to double dip and this causes even 1 or 2 extra regular entries, then you've got win-win all around.

Another scenario: STU. I've thought about running STU just for the track time. But it's too expensive at the full price. If the price were $125, I might be able to convince a couple of other ITC guys to run. We wouldn't be running to win STU, but all we care about is racing each other anyway. As long as we stay out of everyone else way, we get more track time, club makes more money.

Sounds like a good idea. My only concern would be keeping the refunds straight.

To clarify it would have to be the same car/ same driver dbl. dipping in two classes. Correct?

[Butch Kummer]

One question on double dipping, why do we generally charge so much for double dipping? Double dippers don't cost us that much in sanction and insurance do they?

My understanding of the situation:

The sanction fee (a base fee then $15 per entry over 150 entries) is per race entry, so we have to pay twice for double-dippers. We still have to pay the same amount for track rental, ambulance, wrecker, etc., so there's no cost savings there to the host region.

The insurance is $29.50 per car for the weekend, so double-dipping gives us a break there. Ostensibly a double-dipper still consumes one entry's worth of alcohol & food at the Saturday social, so there COULD be a savings there as well.

At the 2009 ARRC by GRM we offered a discount of $25-$50 to people running multiple races (Sprints, Three Hour, Bonus race) with the same car, except for the Pro-IT. Since half the Pro-IT entry fee is returned to the racers in the form of prize money, we don't offer Pro-IT combination discounts. We did not offer "true" double-dipping discounts (ITA & SM, for instance), but I'll have to think about it. The numbers don't support a $100+ discount, however, particularly since the driver gets the benefit of more track time and/or being able to split travel costs with a buddy.

[jhooten]

Just a thought, since IT cars can run in STU I would consider not grouping STU in any group with IT. That would allow Two drivers to enter the same car in different groups giving you a potential bump in entries.

[dhardison]

Just a thought, since IT cars can run in STU I would consider not grouping STU in any group with IT. That would allow Two drivers to enter the same car in different groups giving you a potential bump in entries.

I agree! I'd love to run both ITE and STU, but since they're in the same run group that makes it a bit difficult.

[RacerBill]

Dan: You want to run ITC, ITE and STU??????????????

[dhardison]

Dan: You want to run ITC, ITE and STU??????????????

No, just ITE & STU. My car's not classed in ITC.

[TAC]

No, just ITE & STU. My car's not classed in ITC.

I think Bill has you confused with the ITC Hardison that posts also.