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Thread: 2010 race groups for the I.T.SPEC*tacular

  1. #1
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    Default 2010 race groups for the I.T.SPEC*tacular

    O.K. gang,

    Butch Kummer contacted me to let me know GTA will not be returning for the 2010 I.T.SPEC*tacular. With GTA gone I'm adding a Formula race group back in the mix. I'm also looking at the I.T. class pairings and I'm not sure if its better to run ITR in with ITS, ITB or go back to something similar to 2008 where we had ITR in with ITE, AS, TCC.

    Right now I'm looking at ( * not actual race group order!)

    ITA, IT7, ITC
    ITS, ITB
    ITR, ITE, STU, STO, AS
    SRF, EP, FP, HP
    SM, SSM
    CFF, FF, CFC, FC, FE

    Your suggestions are most welcome.

    Todd

  2. #2
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    Todd,
    What do you think of adding Sports Racers in the formula group?
    John Weisberg
    BERG Racing
    Rochester NY
    203-556-0427

    http://www.berg-racing.com/

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAC View Post
    O.K. gang,

    Butch Kummer contacted me to let me know GTA will not be returning for the 2010 I.T.SPEC*tacular. With GTA gone I'm adding a Formula race group back in the mix. I'm also looking at the I.T. class pairings and I'm not sure if its better to run ITR in with ITS, ITB or go back to something similar to 2008 where we had ITR in with ITE, AS, TCC.

    Right now I'm looking at ( * not actual race group order!)

    ITA, IT7, ITC
    ITS, ITB
    ITR, ITE, STU, STO, AS
    SRF, EP, FP, HP
    SM, SSM
    CFF, FF, CFC, FC, FE

    Your suggestions are most welcome.

    Todd
    Damn Todd, can't you stick AS somewhere else? Who can read my mind right now?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by eprodrx7 View Post
    Todd,
    What do you think of adding Sports Racers in the formula group?
    I think there may be too large a gap between CFF and C's and D's. S2000's are close and may work.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by dj10 View Post
    Damn Todd, can't you stick AS somewhere else? Who can read my mind right now?
    Nothings in stone yet. Any suggestions to a better mix with ITR, ITE, STO and STU?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TAC View Post
    Nothings in stone yet. Any suggestions to a better mix with ITR, ITE, STO and STU?
    How about:

    ITS, ITB, ITR, STU
    ITE, STO, AS
    Dan
    2010, 2011, 2012 & 2013 Great Lakes Division ITB Champion

  7. #7
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    How about some of the non IT groups race between the IT groups. I'd love to watch ITB after I get out of ITA.
    Spanky | #73 ITA 1990 Honda Civic WDCR SOLD | #73 ITA 1995 Honda Civic WDCR in progress |
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    Hold on cowboy. "( * not actual race group order!)"

    I think he just put the groups in order of quality for now...
    Jim Hardesty
    ITC 1986 Honda Civic Diablo Rojo Verde
    Never argue your tab at the end of the night. Remember, you're hammered and they’re sober.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spnkzss View Post
    How about some of the non IT groups race between the IT groups. I'd love to watch ITB after I get out of ITA.
    Quote Originally Posted by TAC View Post
    Right now I'm looking at ( * not actual race group order!)
    Rob, we're not getting into scheduling arguements quite yet.

    To refresh everyone's memory, last year there was 6 run groups too, but with these pairings:
    1 - ITA, IT7
    2 - SRF, EP, FP, HP
    3 - ITS, ITB
    4 - AS, GTA, ITE, STO
    5 - ITR, ITC, STU
    6 - SM, SSM

    I think everyone was pretty happy with that. I for one thought those groupings worked out great. Now with removing GTA, and adding in a winged group, I'm having a hard time coming up with anything I like. I'd consider putting AS/ITE/STO/STU together and ITR/ITS/ITB together, but I just don't see the ITR & ITS guys not screwing up eachothers races. Then of course the STU guys will want to be in a slower class too. Either way, we need to ensure good racing that isn't being overly screwed with by overlap between classes, effectively dorking up both classes race. That lessens the quality of the event, and the allure it has for people to attend it. Start doing that, and it slowly just turns back into any regular old regional as more classes get added and more overlap in run groups happen. I think adding a wing group is already too much a step in that direction for me to be comfortable with. I'll have to think on it to see if I can come up with anything better.


    edit: Todd - Can you refresh my memory on a couple of things? What was the length of each of the four sessions per group? I can't find last years supps to look it up. I believe it was something like 20 minute qualifying, 20 lap race, 10 lap race, & 20 lap race. Is that correct? Also, can you tell me about when the last checkered flag flew each day? Thanks.
    Last edited by R2 Racing; 01-06-2010 at 12:36 PM.
    Kevin
    2010 FP Runoffs & Super Sweep Champion
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    2008 & 2009 ITA ARRC Champion
    '90 FP Acura Integra RS
    '92 ITA Acura Integra RS
    '92 ITB Honda Civic DX

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by R2 Racing View Post
    Now with removing GTA, and adding in a winged group...
    Therein lies the rub. It's actually pretty simple: by adding in a winged/Formula group that did not exist before, you've added a whole race group. There's just no way around that.

    So with this action the only way you can do it is to take last year's groups, remove GTA, maybe pull out SRF if they'll run with Wingy-Dingies, and find a way to fit last year's six groups into only five. Or, find a way to schedule seven groups total.

    No matter how you slice it...

    GA
    Not my circus...not my monkeys...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jumbojimbo View Post
    Hold on cowboy. "( * not actual race group order!)"

    I think he just put the groups in order of quality for now...
    DOH!!
    Spanky | #73 ITA 1990 Honda Civic WDCR SOLD | #73 ITA 1995 Honda Civic WDCR in progress |
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    Quote Originally Posted by R2 Racing View Post
    Rob, we're not getting into scheduling arguements quite yet.

    To refresh everyone's memory, last year there was 6 run groups too, but with these pairings:
    1 - ITA, IT7
    2 - SRF, EP, FP, HP
    3 - ITS, ITB
    4 - AS, GTA, ITE, STO
    5 - ITR, ITC, STU
    6 - SM, SSM

    I think everyone was pretty happy with that. I for one thought those groupings worked out great. Now with removing GTA, and adding in a winged group, I'm having a hard time coming up with anything I like. I'd consider putting AS/ITE/STO/STU together and ITR/ITS/ITB together, but I just don't see the ITR & ITS guys not screwing up eachothers races. Then of course the STU guys will want to be in a slower class too. Either way, we need to ensure good racing that isn't being overly screwed with by overlap between classes, effectively dorking up both classes race. That lessens the quality of the event, and the allure it has for people to attend it. Start doing that, and it slowly just turns back into any regular old regional as more classes get added and more overlap in run groups happen. I think adding a wing group is already too much a step in that direction for me to be comfortable with. I'll have to think on it to see if I can come up with anything better.


    edit: Todd - Can you refresh my memory on a couple of things? What was the length of each of the four sessions per group? I can't find last years supps to look it up. I believe it was something like 20 minute qualifying, 20 lap race, 10 lap race, & 20 lap race. Is that correct? Also, can you tell me about when the last checkered flag flew each day? Thanks.

    Stepping back to the 2008 event:

    Group 1 ITB, ITS
    Group 2 SRF
    Group 3 ITA, IT7, ITC
    Group 4 SM, SSM
    Group 5 ITR, ITE, TCC, AS
    Group 6 FF, CFF, FC, CFC

    Group 5 had (6) ITR, (8) ITE, (7) TCC and (1) AS. No incidents and no complaints from what I remember. The reason we moved classes around last year was because of the GTA class. Without them I moved things back the way they were in 2008. Example of one race:
    ...................TCC 1:36.804
    .................. ITE 1:39.396,
    ...................ITR 1:44.104,
    ................... AS 1:49.197.

    example one race 2009
    STU 1.39.882
    STO 1:34.999

    Naturally since STU and STO are national classes we could remove them and add TCC back in the mix.

    And yes Kevin you are correct in your sessions and laps. Checker flag was around 4:35 pm each day with O.T. kicking in at 5:00 pm.

    Todd
    Last edited by TAC; 01-06-2010 at 10:10 PM.

  13. #13
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    I'd be comfortable with either the 2008 or 2009 grouping for ITR. I thought both years we had good separation, little to no intermingling of the various categories.

    I'm really not enamored with the idea of running ITR with ITS.
    Last edited by RedMisted; 01-07-2010 at 01:43 AM.
    Chris
    #91 ITR Mustang
    1st place-2008 Great Lakes Division Championship Series
    1st place-2009 Kryderacing Series

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    So the idea is to basically do the same thing as 2008, but add E/F/HP in with SRF (like 2009), and make the "big bore" group ITR/ITE/TCC/AS. I was going to ask about removing STO & STU since they're both now Runoffs eligable, but didn't know if it mattered much. If someone has one of those cars, and wants to run that weekend, they can pretty easily run ITE (or TCC if eligable) just the same. Either way, they'll still be in the same run group.

    I guess I don't have a big problem with that, but then again my class wouldn't be getting affected much (if I run ITA).
    Kevin
    2010 FP Runoffs & Super Sweep Champion
    2010 ITB ARRC Champion
    2008 & 2009 ITA ARRC Champion
    '90 FP Acura Integra RS
    '92 ITA Acura Integra RS
    '92 ITB Honda Civic DX

  15. #15
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    This:
    Group 1 ITB, ITS
    Group 2 SRF, EP, FP, HP
    Group 3 ITA, IT7, ITC
    Group 4 SM, SSM
    Group 5 ITR, ITE, TCC, AS
    Group 6 FF, CFF, FC, CFC

    (hopefully Group 2 doesn't oil the track down too much... )
    But, there were several double-dipper SM's, so having them back to back is tough on those guys sharing cars. Although it was amusing watching the driver swaps in grid.

    On edit - is TCC even interested in running? If not, that makes the Group 5 even better with just ITR, ITE, and AS. Maybe throw STO and STU back in there?
    Last edited by Racerlinn; 01-07-2010 at 12:00 PM.
    Steve Linn | Fins Up Racing | #6 ITA Sentra SE-R | www.indyscca.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by Racerlinn View Post
    This:
    Group 1 ITB, ITS
    Group 2 SRF, EP, FP, HP
    Group 3 ITA, IT7, ITC
    Group 4 SM, SSM
    Group 5 ITR, ITE, TCC, AS
    Group 6 FF, CFF, FC, CFC

    (hopefully Group 2 doesn't oil the track down too much... )
    But, there were several double-dipper SM's, so having them back to back is tough on those guys sharing cars. Although it was amusing watching the driver swaps in grid.

    On edit - is TCC even interested in running? If not, that makes the Group 5 even better with just ITR, ITE, and AS. Maybe throw STO and STU back in there?
    Steve,

    This isn't the group order just the way they came out of my head. I was threatened with death by the stewards if I put SM/SSM last again this year since they all missed dinner 2 nights in a row sorting out protests and incident reports. I plan to put them in as group #2. The rest is still up for debate.

    Thank you all for the input.

    Todd

  17. #17
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    Screw it, put SM in Group 1 then, and have ITA in Group 3 or later for the double-dippers.


    (For the record, ITA was in Group 1 last year, and that's not conducive to our Saturday night drinking. So I hereby request, on behalf of the ITA community, to not put us in Group 1 two years in a row.)
    Kevin
    2010 FP Runoffs & Super Sweep Champion
    2010 ITB ARRC Champion
    2008 & 2009 ITA ARRC Champion
    '90 FP Acura Integra RS
    '92 ITA Acura Integra RS
    '92 ITB Honda Civic DX

  18. #18
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    While I don't condone the "me first" with a request to not be first (though I fully understand and agree with it), I do agree that anyone that bitches about how long their tech inspection takes should be the first in line in the AM. Works out for everyone.

    If they bitch about it being too early, tell 'em to buy a Honda.
    Not my circus...not my monkeys...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by R2 Racing View Post
    Screw it, put SM in Group 1 then, and have ITA in Group 3 or later for the double-dippers.


    (For the record, ITA was in Group 1 last year, and that's not conducive to our Saturday night drinking. So I hereby request, on behalf of the ITA community, to not put us in Group 1 two years in a row.)
    I figured since I'm going to bee a noob I couldn't request that.
    Spanky | #73 ITA 1990 Honda Civic WDCR SOLD | #73 ITA 1995 Honda Civic WDCR in progress |
    ** Sponsored by J&L Automotive (703) 327-5239 | Engineered Services, Inc. http://www.EngineeredServices.com **

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  20. #20
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    I will
    My proposed schedule (which is worth less than $0.02):

    Group 1 SM, SSM
    Group 2 ITB, ITS
    Group 3 SRF, EP, FP, HP
    Group 4 ITA, IT7, ITC
    Group 5 ITR, ITE, AS, STO, STU
    Group 6 FF, CFF, FC, CFC

    Allows double dipping Miatii, makes Miata drivers and stewards happy (that was an ugly deal last year with them), and lets the majority of IT folks see each others race groups.
    Sunday morning in the rain this year was interesting, and I tried to be good and actually went to bed "early" :toast:
    Steve Linn | Fins Up Racing | #6 ITA Sentra SE-R | www.indyscca.org

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