2010 GCR now available

[tom91ita]

i would hope that those stickers are now free for the National cars.

[dickita15]

Lighten up. The national office sold this contingency deal. Some cash for the club, contingency moneys paid to drivers by national points and yes the required stickers are supposed to be free.
I do not think it is a bad thing that Topeka found a series sponsor for national racing.

[Greg Amy]

Lighten up.

??? Is that response intended to do just the opposite?

The national office sold this contingency deal. Some cash for the club, contingency moneys paid to drivers by national points and yes the required stickers are supposed to be free. I do not think it is a bad thing that Topeka found a series sponsor for national racing.

So, where's the details on this alleged "contingency" program? How much is Topeka getting for this program? How are the racers themselves (you know, the ones actually paying for all these races?) going to benefit by mandated Club-sponsor stickers on the sides of their cars?

Sorry, Dick, this direction may not bother you, but it certainly does me.

GA

[Dave Gomberg]

The deal came together very recently (discussions started at PRI earlier this month). The language and the figure showing the new sticker went into the new GCR literally a few days before it was released on Monday. Although the basic outlines of the program were settled, there were still details being worked out. The SafeRacer folks have posted on a few other forums that they will be putting out a press release as soon as they can (possibly today or tomorrow). So, yeah, lighten up, hold your fire until you see the details (which I don't know, so please don't ask me). If you are still unhappy, then complain to your director.

Dave

[gran racing]

I can see this as a thought to raise money for the club, but can also see the other side. While I'm not fortunate enough to have a sponsor or own a business that is in competition with SafeRacer, I can see others that do having a big problem with this.

Is this advertising opportunity also open for other businesses? What is the cost?

[dickita15]

Greg,
I applaud your cautious nature. I understand that this deal came together quickly after the PRI show and I believe the full details will be unveiled at the national convention at the end of January. It is unfortunate that the timing of the 2010 GCR release scooped the official announcement.
I do not have every detail but the national office was able to find a title sponsor for the national racing series. The club will get some sponsorship money, national racers will get some contingency money. Racers running National races will now have to run the series sticker which I am told are free in place of the previously requires Club Racing sticker that we had to pay for. Regional racers may run either the national series sticker that is free or the club racing sticker which they may still buy.
I do not see the problem. Is it not a good thing that SCCA was able to sell a title sponsorship for the national racing series?

[Greg Amy]

Is it not a good thing that SCCA was able to sell a title sponsorship for the national racing series?

Possibly.

Ok, Dick and Dave, I'll hold my fire until we see the details. As we know, that's where the devil is...but at first glance, I have two issues with series sponsorship in amateur Club Racing: it's mandatory and it intermixes the sponsor with the sanctioning body.

On the first point, no matter how this is detailed, it's not "contingency sponsorship". Contingency sponsorship is an optional system where someone will pay a racer contingent upon their finishing results and their running the sponsors decal(s). The key difference here is that contingency sponsorship is optional. What if you choose not to support the sponsor, either that you're confident you won't do well enough to take advantage of the program, you don't like the sponsor, you have a competing sponsor, or you simply don't want to put a sticker on your car? Well, regardless of the reason, you can choose to not put that sticker on the car and choose not to accept the reward. I personally will never put an advertising sticker on my car unless I have something to gain, and in some cases I've consciously chosen to forego potential contingency sponsorship because of disagreements with the company (do not infer this to mean I have an issue with this specific sponsor; I do not).

But with a series sponsor, you do not have that option. These decals - and it's "sponsorship" - are mandatory, whether you can benefit from it or not.

Further, when one accepts series sponsorship and mandates advertising on all cars, it is incumbent upon the sanctioning body to ensure that all competitors benefit from the sponsorship, not just those fortunate enough to do well. Once you accept series sponsorship it cannot be divided out based on results, especially in non-professional club racing; with mandated sponsorship support comes mandated racer support. You force me to run a sponsor decal, I damn sure better be getting something in return, even if I wreck out on the first lap.

Finally, when one intermixes a sanctioning body with a series sponsor, lots of ugly things can happen. Look what's happened to professional motorsports and series sponsors, not to mention its effects on other sports. I'm not breaking out the black helicopters here, but who's to say what this deal really entails? What kind of deals did it take for the Club to make such a sea change? Again, I'm not saying that anything is happening - I really doubt it, especially this early in the game; after all, most things do start with good intentions - I'm just saying that there's a distinct potential for apparent improprieties, certainly the more intermixed the Club gets into these kind of deals.

I suggest my concerns really come down to the mandate and the decal. Had Topeka spent this effort to gain such a series sponsor and one, made it truly a contingency sponsorship (i.e., made it optional) and two, did not provide the appearance of potential impropriety with the inbreeding of the mandatory Club decals with the sponsor (i.e., made a separate decal for it) then I'd probably be right up there applauding the idea and gladly slapping those decals on my car when I run Nationals. But as it stands now, my hackles are raised, watching for the devil's shoe to drop, for the opportunity to say "I done tole ya so"...

GA


* Are we really claiming one of the big advantages of this program is that someone gets the three decals for free instead of - what? - $3 each, especially when the vast majority of racers are already running the Club decals that they already had to buy...? C'mon, we can do better than that...

** I suspect this should be a separate topic. If it goes too much further I'll split these posts out.

[tom91ita]

Dick clarified this issue for me below and this is no longer a concern of mine. the mods can feel free to delete if they desire.

the only reason i am leaving it is if someone else had the same basic thought/question.

the part that bugs me (but i work near an airport with the occasional helicopter flybys) is that two "odd" things just happened;

1. Against the recommendation of the CRB, the BOD has mandated the use of H&NR in 2012.
2. We now have a series sponsor with mandated stickers that just happens to sell H&NRs.

now i don't know if it is a sweetheart deal or not but i don't like it coming out in the same GCR.

and i have bought gear from saferacer and found them to be competitive and easy to deal with so i really have no bone to pick with them.

[dickita15]

the part that bugs me (but i work near an airport with the occasional helicopter flybys) is that two "odd" things just happened;

1. Against the recommendation of the CRB, the BOD has mandated the use of H&NR in 2012.
2. We now have a series sponsor with mandated stickers that just happens to sell H&NRs.

now i don't know if it is a sweetheart deal or not but i don't like it coming out in the same GCR.

and i have bought gear from saferacer and found them to be competitive and easy to deal with so i really have no bone to pick with them.

Uh, Tom no.
My first thought was that that thought is out there, but then I know more about this than someone seeing it all as the GCR came out so I will actually give you a serious answer. The H&N vote was done in the first week in December by the 2009 BOD. The series sponsorship deal came out of meetings at the PTI show the next week and was brought to the 2009 BOD’s attention on December 22nd. So I can say no the sponsorship proposal had absolutely no impact on the considerable discussion the BOD had on H&N.

[Knestis]

Dick clarified this issue for me below and this is no longer a concern of mine. the mods can feel free to delete if they desire.

the only reason i am leaving it is if someone else had the same basic thought/question.

...and HANS is prominently displayed in the GCR in what we can only presume is a paid advertisement. Or is it?

That's the kind of issue that commercialization brings with it. See also, "NASA spec tires."

K

[dickita15]

Ok, Dick and Dave, I'll hold my fire until we see the details.
GA

Thank you Greg, that is all anyone could ask.

[zchris]

Greg, I'm with you on this issue. Nobody asked me if I wanted to advertise for these poeple. And you know that whatever I or anyone else will personally get will be insignificant in relation to what national racing costs overall. And could certainly cost me sponsors that sell competing products. I to have purchased from Saferacer and had a pleasant experience. They will no longer be on my speed dial when I need parts. Can you imagine if I went up to the Goodyear guys at the end of a race to claim tires for a win and had a Hoosier patch under the Goodyear patch on my suit. Do you think Goodyear would hand over that contingency prize. I don't think so. Should I be asked to risk offending my engine sponsor who sells safety equipment also. It was clearly not well thought out. But I will listen to the offer before I post anymore outraged posts.
Chris Howard

[924Guy]

Maybe I just haven't been around long enough to be cynical; personally, I think it's great that a sponsor is willing to step up, recognize, and provide such support for our little hobby.

[RacerBill]

I think that Mac has it right, that we may be reading between the lines where there is really no writing. And it is great that someone has stepped up to help our sport.

But I also remember the contention between sponsors such as CocaCola and Pepsi at NASCAR events and even (IIRR) AT&T and NEXTEL/SPRINT at NASCAR events. However, we are not talking about megabucks here (yeah, even a couple of hundred bucks is mega bucks to me), and we should wait and hear from some other suppliers (Racer Parts Wholesale, Pegasus, Continental, etc) and see what their take is. Do any of us receive sponsorship from any of these vendors?

I, myself, tend to shop around at different vendors, purchasing needed items from different sources (some vendors carry items that others do not). But where I have a choice, I purchase from Continental Motorsports. My reasoning is that their selection is good, and their prices are fair. But the most compelling reason is because they stepped up and took over the stand at Mid-Ohio when the previous vendor decided to leave. Jim and Jeannie are there for us, the racers, just about every weekend. More than once, I have been able to get a needed part that kept me in the game that weekend.

I hope that my fellow racers step up and recognise the support that SafeRacer is showing SCCA (that's us!).

[gran racing]

Mac, I don't think any of us are saying anything negative about SafeRacer as it relates to this deal. At the same time, IMO it goes back to what Greg said before. There's a difference between a contingency and this type of sponsorship in CLUB racing. Pro racing is another thing. The $15K in rewards given out, I personally would have rather it be done in another manner than based on winnings (if done as a series sponsor). Let some of the back to mid pack drivers benefit from this as much as the front runners. Heck, in most cases they probably need the help more anyway.

we should wait and hear from some other suppliers (Racer Parts Wholesale, Pegasus, Continental, etc) and see what their take is. Do any of us receive sponsorship from any of these vendors?

First thing that came to mind was SPS. (The company that runs the SCCA merchandise website.)

[dickita15]

From the press release:
“As part of the sponsorship, SafeRacer will provide $15,000 in certificates to be distributed to class Champions in the nationwide point championship.”
I wish I could say more, unfortunately I have a responsibility now not to discuss contract terms but the word part here is very important. I think it is great that a company like Saferacer has stepped up to become a title sponsor for the National racing series and in doing so will hopefully help in the effort to reclaim some of the luster it so richly deserves. I need belts this year and know where I will buy them now.

[cooleyjb]

This is my third attempt on this one. I am doing my best not to brow beat the living S out of the whole lot!
Running a dang, free sticker, that is a very small advertisment for a very good sponsor is not the huge deal you guys are trying to make it into. If it had been me being the sponsor I would have wanted company name a lot more prominent than those little stickers.
Baker should have come up with some sort of idea like this for y'alls pet HNR and this board would be singing SCCA's praises.
First off Greg, don't worry about something being crooked, Charlie & Mike at Saferacer are about as honest as they come. No ones palms are being greased. We need every promotional and sponsor dollar we can find in this day and age.

This attitude from the "nath" makes me think Bert Levy was writing about real modern day folks in his books.

Here's my take. I have nothing but respect for the guys at Saferacer. They are a good group of guys. I do run a small business that 'competes' with them on a very small scale. If I were to offer a contingency package it would include the terms that I was to be the only race apparel dealer on the car. I don't have the ability to do what Saferacer has done so I applaud them for stepping up and doing it. My issue is with the SCCA. They've now required me to a put a sticker on my car that I will get NOTHING from. The 15K goes to the top finishers and in SRF I'm not a top national guy. The other money that is going to SCCA will do nothing to lower my fees or make it cheaper for me to race. If they're going to 'offer' a 10% discount, whoopeee, they've had that forever.

Maybe I just haven't been around long enough to be cynical; personally, I think it's great that a sponsor is willing to step up, recognize, and provide such support for our little hobby.

I think it's great that they did as well. However it's a contingency package that we're getting as racers, not a sponsorship from them. A sponsorship package benefits all the racers, a contingency package will only benefit a small portion of the actual competitors.

From the press release:
“As part of the sponsorship, SafeRacer will provide $15,000 in certificates to be distributed to class Champions in the nationwide point championship.”
I wish I could say more, unfortunately I have a responsibility now not to discuss contract terms but the word part here is very important. I think it is great that a company like Saferacer has stepped up to become a title sponsor for the National racing series and in doing so will hopefully help in the effort to reclaim some of the luster it so richly deserves. I need belts this year and know where I will buy them now.

That's the problem. This is MY club too but I don't get any info on how the deal went down or what we are gettting. This is one of the many issues that there are with the club. This isn't NASA where it's a for profit model. This is my club and at the amateur level I don't want to whore my self out to anyone, even if they're a good group of guys like Saferacer.

Since you're on the board, how about answers to these questions.

What does the last place guy at the Mid America National in SRF get from Saferacer?

Like sponsors in other racing are they going to have a presence at every National? Koni was at every Koni Challenge Race.

What do the regions that put on the national events get from this? They are actually taking the financial risk and manpower to put these one.

What do the cornerworkers, grid crew, stewards, tech, etc. get from Saferacer? They are volunteering for a amateur level club and now we have a professional sponsor.

Why wasn't this put out to bid? I can think of a few orgnizaitons that would have put up a decent amount of money to get title billing.