Open Coolers

[lateapex911]

Like I said, when I get to the track come by and protest away.

I hope you'll regret saying that, and it was a rash comment.

You have two honorable choices:

• Campaign to get a rule you don't like changed.
• Run a legal setup, and adjust your setup legally to deal with whatever issue confronts you.

Actually, a third. Put stickers on your car more in keeping with the prep level.

David, to be blunt, your current stance shows no respect for me, or my fellow rules abiding competitors. You are stating that you will choose to increase your performance via cheating. An accidental issue, I can understand, but this is a conscious and premeditated plan, which results in a malicious cheat, and I hope your fellow competitors are aware of your approach, and your lack of respect for them.

Greg, I believe you mean "Prop wash"...or in this case "Jet wash"....

[mbuskuhl]

fellow competitors

As long as rsportvolvo stays in the SOWDIV, there are no competitors to even file protests.

Latest standings have avg. car counts at:

ITA - 6.09
ITB - .36
ITC - .36
ITE - 1.09
ITR - .82
ITS - 2.73

It's a moot point.

Anyways, back to trans coolers. How about the competitive advantage "washer bottle".

[rsportvolvo]

CRB letter sent.

My intended tone is the lack of respect for how SCCA deals with IT issues. Not my fellow compeititors.

My point is that my car is going to be 100% legal and I welcome any protests regardless of the forum banter and subsequent speculation.

Does anyone have gearbox/transaxle/differential temp logs to provide some empirical evidence to the CRB?

[JohnRW]

"What's past is prologue" - William Shakespeare, "The Tempest" (Act 2, Scene 1)

My intended tone is the lack of respect for how SCCA deals with IT issues. Not my fellow compeititors.

Hmmm. In this thread in early 2006 ( http://72.167.111.130/forums/showthread.php?t=18440 ) about this very same subject, you stated:

I was boasting about running shot peened rods. But let me ask you this, if you protest my car for the rods being illegal how can you prove that I shot peened my rods? Did Volvo shot peen the rods from the Factory? Were the rods shot peened from another rebuild by a shot that uses shot to clean engine parts? Basically this modification only increases the life of the rod by increasing the rods fatigue life. If you're going to complain abou that I feel sorry for you. Same goes for someone who would protest the use of a diff. cooler. That makes for a satisifying victory!

If you suspect my car's illegal, put up or shutup. Not trying to be rude, but if you aren't going to protest, then you're just a whiner. No one likes a whiner and you are doing nothing about keeping IT honest. Oh, and the accused is, of course, innocent until proven guilty.

So...where is the "respect" that you claim to have ?

In that same thread, you wrote:

The differential is a Dana 30 and can easily handle the IT power ouput. Plate style limited slips can create a lot of heat. I am thinking about solutions before the problem arises.

...then in your most recent post, today, you write:

Does anyone have gearbox/transaxle/differential temp logs to provide some empirical evidence to the CRB?

Hmmm, again. You're only now looking for evidence to back up your requests for a rules change, that you had previously stated (2006 again) was based on looking for problems that didn't actually exist. Big thumbs up here.

[lateapex911]

Adding coolers should be a minimal impact considering all that can be done currently within the ITCS. I mentioned this awhile back and plan on running one regardless. The cost of a new differential is a lot more than a pump, lines and a cooler.

David, this is the comment that triggered my follow up. It seems clear from this that you plan to do what you want, in spite of the rules. How can we conclude otherwise?

And if you run one to spite the rulesmakers, are they the ones getting hurt? I am not following the logic.......

[Andy Bettencourt]

I am having a shit-ton of issues posting lately. Tons of time outs...

Anyway, I would support a diff cooler rule. We have an engine oil cooler allowance now. I would support it because we can upgrade our units with pretty trick stiff that spins umpteen more revs that stock so it makes sense to me. Same with motor mounts. I think because we are allowed to upgrade the engines to do more than what they were intended, we should be able to keep them from sloshing around without fabricating a stay rod.

Tranny cooler? No. Tranny's must be stock internally so I don't see a need really. Trying to keep this stuff 'making sense' in my head without expanding the performance envelope. Logical upgrades in keeping with other rules in the ITCS that are totally optional.

[Ron Earp]

Cool. Motor mounts and diff coolers. Can we get rid of the freaking washer bottle now? Cause the bottle sure doesn't have a damn thing to do with us going to Prod.

Ron, who is already dreaming of hydraulic drives from pinon mounted impellers cause inside his diff is free and diff coolers look like a lot of things. Might be illegal but from the looks of this thread illegal is in vogue now

[Rabbit07]

I am having a shit-ton of issues posting lately. Tons of time outs...

Anyway, I would support a diff cooler rule. We have an engine oil cooler allowance now. I would support it because we can upgrade our units with pretty trick stiff that spins umpteen more revs that stock so it makes sense to me. Same with motor mounts. I think because we are allowed to upgrade the engines to do more than what they were intended, we should be able to keep them from sloshing around without fabricating a stay rod.

Tranny cooler? No. Tranny's must be stock internally so I don't see a need really. Trying to keep this stuff 'making sense' in my head without expanding the performance envelope. Logical upgrades in keeping with other rules in the ITCS that are totally optional.

The Diffs are most of the problem I have seen. However FWD would require a trans cooler to accomplish the same thing, so I figured open it all up. Just my $.02

[Knestis]

Allowing RWD cars to use diff coolers without the same allowance for FWD cars is a post hoc competition adjustment. We're hurting gearboxes on the Golfs so there's little question that less heat would help them live longer, so leaving us without coolers puts us at an instant relative disadvantage. And FWD cars can make the same change (FD) to their gearboxes as the RWD guys/gals can to their 3rd members so "logical upgrades" applies.

What's good for the goose and all that, eh, wot...?

Hey - this creep thing is easier than I ever thought it would be! If I wanted to, I could just snip all of my arguments from past posts here.



K

[Xian]

I am having a shit-ton of issues posting lately. Tons of time outs...

Anyway, I would support a [fill in the blank] rule. We have an [fill in the blank] allowance now. I would support it because we can upgrade our units with pretty trick stuff that [fill in the blank] than stock so it makes sense to me. Same with [fill in the blank] . I think because we are allowed to upgrade the engines to do more than what they were intended, we should be able to [fill in the blank] .

Really? Really, really?

Andy, please re-read your argument above. Maybe your issues posting are b/c of loose footing on the slippery slope you're currently navigating?

Christian, who, maybe just b/c it's been a long day, thinks you sound like a fuggin fool right now.

[Ron Earp]

Hey - this creep thing is easier than I ever thought it would be!


K

See, see, you're catching on. You too can do it!!

[Xian]

See, see, you're catching on. You too can do it!!

Well, if I can't get a diff/tranny cooler installed and plumbed effectively, can I get an allowance for a non-factory transmission?

Also, with Andy's logic, I'd like an allowance for aftermarket rods and valvetrain so they can handle the "umpteen more revs than stock" I spin my engine to.

Christian, who's amazed that his tongue didn't poke thru his cheek writing this.

[Rabbit07]

Well, if I can't get a diff/tranny cooler installed and plumbed effectively, can I get an allowance for a non-factory transmission?

Also, with Andy's logic, I'd like an allowance for aftermarket rods and valvetrain so they can handle the "umpteen more revs than stock" I spin my engine to.

Christian, who's amazed that his tongue didn't poke thru his cheek writing this.

And as always we digress..........

[Greg Amy]

See, see, you're catching on. You too can do it!!

Think that's fun? You should listen in on some of the theoretical conversations in the rental cars to and from the race tracks. Hell, Kirk and I have already figured out how to have full-up tube-frame cars in IT -- LEGALLY!

[Andy Bettencourt]

The point of the excersize gentleman is that everyone has their line. Things are ok where they are. I would love a few of my personal pet peeves to go through but they aren't important to most.

[frnkhous]

Allowing RWD cars to use diff coolers without the same allowance for FWD cars is a post hoc competition adjustment. We're hurting gearboxes on the Golfs so there's little question that less heat would help them live longer, so leaving us without coolers puts us at an instant relative disadvantage. And FWD cars can make the same change (FD) to their gearboxes as the RWD guys/gals can to their 3rd members so "logical upgrades" applies.

What's good for the goose and all that, eh, wot...?

Hey - this creep thing is easier than I ever thought it would be! If I wanted to, I could just snip all of my arguments from past posts here.



K

Kirk, your reading this wrong... diff coolers means you get a trans cooler poor bastards with seperate transmissons are out of luck. I mean you are cooling the diff right?

Brian who can't believe andy just posted that. I know atleast 4 people with 5.13's and zero issues in an rx-7. In fact the only person I personally know that has had an issue is because bolts backed out. I think somebody is doing the rx-7 diff's wrong, or else the current crop of 2k dollar final drive gears isn't being done correctly. That really isn't out of the question as it has happened in the past. I've seen a 4.4 or whatever the good stock diff was last 24hours straight without a cooler and still no issues. Sorry but change the fluid ever weekend and you shouldn't be having issues.

[Z3_GoCar]

SWISH!!!

(Picture of GA moving his hand across the top of his head, front to back...)

Greg,

Shouldn't that be:

Neeeeee......owww

[Ron Earp]

Hell, Kirk and I have already figured out how to have full-up tube-frame cars in IT -- LEGALLY!

Tube frame? Hell, that is so yesterday....

Also, with Andy's logic, I'd like an allowance for aftermarket rods and valvetrain so they can handle the "umpteen more revs than stock" I spin my engine to.

See how easy it is? I dub thee Master of the Slippery Slope.

I'm gonna try. Ok, I'm putting my competitors on notice - I am not going to run a 2.6L motor because, well, because the 280Zs get to run a 2.8L motor and I've blown up too many 2.6L motors. Plus, there areeven bigger motors in ITS. Hell, phuck it, you know what? I'm not even going to run a Datsun motor anymore cause they don't seem to last as long as lots of other stuff. I'm going to run a 5L Ford motor.

Damn IT rules getting in the way of fun and all that. Wooo wheee I'm gonna be fast in '10!

[pfcs]

Hold it as a possibility that the comp board is the only people left with ANY idea what this class was (should be).
This talk is total senseless bullshit-what the fuck are you thinking?? Andy-please get off the ITAC-you don't belong there and neither did your vacuum line. Kirk-come on man! Don't you remember?
And regarding David Russel-who's long winded, "technically talented" ego driven posts I've endured all these years about a racecar that seems to exist in his mind only, IGNORE HIM! Pay no more attention to him, PLEASE!! And if he ever does get his 242 built, lets hope he puts an illegal diff cooler on his car just so somebody can protest him. What is this forum now, a playpen for the feeble-minded?

[Eagle7]

What is this forum now, a playpen for the feeble-minded?

Just silly-season pickin' up momentum.