Open Coolers

[betamotorsports]

I wonder if the Nationwide stats back you up. IT is as strong as ever in the Northeast and Southeast. Car counts may be down across the board - but are they relative to other classes? Not here. You certainly could be right - I am sure the data exists.

I don't have the national data. I should have qualified my "IT is dying." statement to the region I'm most familiar with - Cal Club. I know of 3 wheel-to-wheel race cars being built from the ground up right now: an E36 BMW, a first gen RX7, and a Miata. None of these are planned or being built for IT and all the builders are long time SCCA members.

The Southeast has always been a hotbed of IT and will probably remain so forever. The ARRC is a huge draw for IT folks and having it in the SE region is great fro IT participation.

I know this won't be popular, but here's my simple opinion of where IT should go:

1. Eligibility should be any car 5 to 25 model years old. Anything older should be running Vintage (whether SCCA creates a vintage category or not is beyond this discussion). Anything younger should be running Touring or SS.

2. Acknowledge that these are purpose built race cars and not dual purpose street/track cars. Allow greater levels of non-vehicle specific race prep for safety and reliability - no HVAC required, coolers allowed, no washer bottle required, no wipers required, etc.

3. Allow competition adjustments (primarily weight) but limit them to changes every 2 years for each vehicle.

4. Allow rear spoilers up to some height and width limit.

5. Most other IT rules are retained - stock body panels, no wings, glass windows, stock dash, no internal engine mods, stock transmissions, wheel size limits, stock suspension mounting points, stock pedal boxes, etc.

[seckerich]

Comp adjustments = politics = dead class.
Wipers are good, we put stock ones on our RX8 GT cars (might allow blades to be removed when not needed.
Wings = Bling You have been around NASA a while.

You live in a vacuum in CA where Nasa is big and IT is small. It is nothing for us to have 60 different drivers in each class earning points and 25 + car classes in ITS, ITA, etc. You do not have drivers building IT cars because there is nobody to race with. Another draw in the Southeast/Northeast is the enduro series that allow double and triple dipping for drivers with IT or SM. Most of the driver and team losses in IT over the last few years went to Spec Miata. Many are coming back and ITR is starting to grow. Hard to see screwing that up to please the vocal few.

And for Rons sake: ditch the washer bottle if any resulting openings are sealed.

[Ron Earp]

And for Rons sake: ditch the washer bottle if any resulting openings are sealed.

Gone already. It melted in the fire at my first IT race as a novice at CMP, a very memorable weekend and one of the reasons I love CMP so much. Space it vacated was replaced with a oil catch can, which the car needed anyhow.

Yes, Jeff has succinctly stated what I was trying to convey. I believe if you search far and wide you'll find that core values are pretty much agreed upon all over - stock pickup points, low motor prep, stock tranny gears, and so on.

And, I think if you poll the membership you'll find a lot of agreement on changing some non-core IT rules like HVACs, heater cores, and wipers.

We can banter back and forth all day about what we think the IT population will agree on but without a solid IT racer survey we'll never really know. Now, I'd be willing to pony up some money to do a proper survey (and Kirk I know you know what that involves) as I have some connections via my wife's work that could help. The survey could be designed with the ITAC's guidance.

But the crux of the question is would anything be done with the results? What if 100% of the IT racers came back and said "you know what, we've decided that all IT race cars are going to be painted red, white, and blue", would the ITAC push for that change? The racers want it, will the club give them what they want?

[Xian]

You know the answer to that already...

[Andy Bettencourt]

I would support anything that the membership was behind as a majority provided it had justification and it was proven to be a valid survey sent to every IT racer.

By supporting it, I mean at the very least I would present it in an unbiased fashion to the CRB for their decision.

[Z3_GoCar]

Comp adjustments = politics = dead class.
Wipers are good, we put stock ones on our RX8 GT cars (might allow blades to be removed when not needed.
Wings = Bling You have been around NASA a while.

...You live in a vacuum in CA where Nasa is big and IT is small. .....

I beg to differ, So-Pac covers Arizona and Southern Neveda too BTW, Look at IT from anyplace West of the Missippi River. With the exception on double-dipping Miatae in ITA, there's nothing happening. ITR is DOA, ask Josh how many other ITR cars he's run aginst this season or last.

Check out our numbers from this seasons standings:

http://www.calclub.com/html/html2/20...s_11_03_09.htm

We've got more Formula Atlantic's and Fords than GT, Production, IT (except for ITA-SM double dippers and ITE-T1/ITR double dippers), T#, or SS cars running regionals. The fact is IT IS broken.

[Andy Bettencourt]

James,

So you haev proven that it is not popular in your area. Some have proven it is immensly popular in their areas. Is IT broken? If it is, how is it ?

Here in the Northeast, ITS and ITA can outnumber EVERY class except for SM. At some events, IT represents over 25% of the entries.

[betamotorsports]

I guess since IT is a "regional" class we can go our own way with the rules... Oh wait, IT is a Regional class with a National rule set. So what's good for the SE region is good for the SoPac region...

[Greg Amy]

Do you really think that the reason I.T. is poorly-subscribed in your part of the country is because of the ruleset?

Do you really think that if you opened up the ruleset for I.T. that it would increase participation?

Seriously?

[seckerich]

I guess since IT is a "regional" class we can go our own way with the rules... Oh wait, IT is a Regional class with a National rule set. So what's good for the SE region is good for the SoPac region...

No, but it is pretty stupid to think the rules for the country should be changed to accomodate you and your "possible" IT car and the other 2 cars per year. IT is poorly subscribed in your area--big deal, run another class or start your own "Bling Bling Wing" as a regional only class. Most of us actively recruit drivers to IT and help them purchase cars to grow the class. We have ITO and ITU for those that don't quite like the rules. I can send you the rules or you can look them up on the sediv website. People run IT because rules are relatively stable and we don't go off half cocked every time someone wants a special exception for their perceived problem.

[betamotorsports]

Do you really think that the reason I.T. is poorly-subscribed in your part of the country is because of the ruleset?

Do you really think that if you opened up the ruleset for I.T. that it would increase participation?

Its not the one reason but it does contribute something to competitor's choices to build different cars or run with a different sanctioning body.

No, but it is pretty stupid to think the rules for the country should be changed to accomodate you and your "possible" IT car and the other 2 cars per year.

Nice.

Most of us actively recruit drivers to IT and help them purchase cars to grow the class.

Me too. I've built five IT level cars for customers who have chosen to run the car somewhere other then IT. Their reasons were varied but I heard complaints from every one some small aspect of IT rules (HVAC, coolers, roll cage limitations, etc.). Will accomodating all their complaints bring them back into the IT fold. Probably not.

Just trying to help with the discussion.

[jumbojimbo]

We've got more Formula Atlantic's and Fords than GT, Production, IT .... The fact is IT IS broken.

While in the midwest we say the opposite. We're going to have a hard time getting anywhere when our realities are so different. With 8-10 car ITC fields in GLD you will not convince me ITC is dead or that the rules need to be changed.

I guess the part I still don't get is how this new an improved IT that you guys want to build to resurect IT in your area is so different from Prod? Or, if there is really a need for this Improved IT in California, why not create a regional set of ITT classes or a slightly restricted Prod? Why bugger up the classes that work here for us here?

On a completely seperate note I'm intrigued by this notion of dual use cars in NASA CA. You have hordes of gentleman racers building 1/2 prepped cars, racing them on Sunday and the wife PDX's it on Saturday? I have to think 97% of the people reading this are laughing out loud right now at the thought or their spouse driving the car on Saturday. But, I grew up in CA, I know it's different out there...