Open Coolers

[Greg Amy]

Do you really think that the reason I.T. is poorly-subscribed in your part of the country is because of the ruleset?

Do you really think that if you opened up the ruleset for I.T. that it would increase participation?

Seriously?

[seckerich]

I guess since IT is a "regional" class we can go our own way with the rules... Oh wait, IT is a Regional class with a National rule set. So what's good for the SE region is good for the SoPac region...

No, but it is pretty stupid to think the rules for the country should be changed to accomodate you and your "possible" IT car and the other 2 cars per year. IT is poorly subscribed in your area--big deal, run another class or start your own "Bling Bling Wing" as a regional only class. Most of us actively recruit drivers to IT and help them purchase cars to grow the class. We have ITO and ITU for those that don't quite like the rules. I can send you the rules or you can look them up on the sediv website. People run IT because rules are relatively stable and we don't go off half cocked every time someone wants a special exception for their perceived problem.

[betamotorsports]

Do you really think that the reason I.T. is poorly-subscribed in your part of the country is because of the ruleset?

Do you really think that if you opened up the ruleset for I.T. that it would increase participation?

Its not the one reason but it does contribute something to competitor's choices to build different cars or run with a different sanctioning body.

No, but it is pretty stupid to think the rules for the country should be changed to accomodate you and your "possible" IT car and the other 2 cars per year.

Nice.

Most of us actively recruit drivers to IT and help them purchase cars to grow the class.

Me too. I've built five IT level cars for customers who have chosen to run the car somewhere other then IT. Their reasons were varied but I heard complaints from every one some small aspect of IT rules (HVAC, coolers, roll cage limitations, etc.). Will accomodating all their complaints bring them back into the IT fold. Probably not.

Just trying to help with the discussion.

[Rabbit07]

There's a 100% legal, easy fix for this within the current ruleset.

Next!

Christian

Hold on just a second. Where do you see that there is a 100% legal solution in this?

h. Oil pans, pan baffles, scrapers, windage trays, oil pickups,
lines, and filters are unrestricted. Oil and power steering hoses
may be replaced with metal braided hose (i.e. Aeroquip). A
pressure accumulator/”Accusump” may be fitted. The location
of the filter and accumulator are unrestricted, but they shall
be securely mounted within the bodywork. All oil lines that
pass into or through the driver/passenger compartment shall
be metal or metal braided hose. Dry sump systems are prohibited
unless fitted as standard equipment. Engine oil and oil

additives are unrestricted.


Power Steering lines are not open, it says very specificly what you can replace them with. No where have I seen a braided stainless hose cooler for sale?

[Ron Earp]

Power Steering lines are not open, it says very specificly what you can replace them with. No where have I seen a braided stainless hose cooler for sale?

Some of the old American cars used to have PS hoses with fins......

[Rabbit07]

Some of the old American cars used to have PS hoses with fins......

I know, but even so, the way the rule reads is that the car would have to have that on them from the factory to be legal.

[Ron Earp]

Replace the hoses with real small diameter ones that have kinks in them.

[Rabbit07]

[JeffYoung]

Exactly. I'm not sure it is a huge intorturation to say that a finned cooler is metal braided hose (I'm serious). It is metal braided hose.

Or what if you ran your thin hose back and forth through a "bracket" in the air stream......

[jumbojimbo]

We've got more Formula Atlantic's and Fords than GT, Production, IT .... The fact is IT IS broken.

While in the midwest we say the opposite. We're going to have a hard time getting anywhere when our realities are so different. With 8-10 car ITC fields in GLD you will not convince me ITC is dead or that the rules need to be changed.

I guess the part I still don't get is how this new an improved IT that you guys want to build to resurect IT in your area is so different from Prod? Or, if there is really a need for this Improved IT in California, why not create a regional set of ITT classes or a slightly restricted Prod? Why bugger up the classes that work here for us here?

On a completely seperate note I'm intrigued by this notion of dual use cars in NASA CA. You have hordes of gentleman racers building 1/2 prepped cars, racing them on Sunday and the wife PDX's it on Saturday? I have to think 97% of the people reading this are laughing out loud right now at the thought or their spouse driving the car on Saturday. But, I grew up in CA, I know it's different out there...

[Xian]

You guys are making it more difficult than it has to be...

Start looking at other sections of the ITCS. Specifically the pulley area (and no, I'm not just talking about underdrive pulleys although they're a good starting point).

[pfcs]

As a paraplegic I needed power steering BAD. I ran it at about 50% on the Golf and the fluid stopped foaming and blowing out of the reservoir.

[Ron Earp]

Or what if you ran your thin hose back and forth through a "bracket" in the air stream......

Or crushed it up under something during an engine install.

Or had a broken pump. Pumps that don't pump fluid can't overheat.

[Rabbit07]

You guys are making it more difficult than it has to be...

Start looking at other sections of the ITCS. Specifically the pulley area (and no, I'm not just talking about underdrive pulleys although they're a good starting point).

And what exactly are you implying? Enlighten me?

[lateapex911]

I think I know. Does it..well, I'll keep mum...

[JeffYoung]

christian, that is a great find, and answers that question for me.

It harkens back to the time when IT was designed to be "the place for old SS cars to go." Since the SSA Calais and Achieva were allowed the upgrade in SS, it made sense under the "old system" to allow them to carry it over into IT.

I do think we should be proactive and remove it though. It's a problematic oddity to explain to others.

Found this link with some info about the brake thing HERE... nothing completely cut and dry but it sounds like a case of the safety and durability cards being played simultaneously.

[Xian]

And what exactly are you implying? Enlighten me?

I'm not implying... I'm flat out stating that there is a legal solution to your PS overheating problem. Sometimes the answer isn't to rewrite a rule, it's to think deeper and broader on how to take advantage of the current ruleset to solve your problem.

Tell ya' what, swing by my paddock at next years ARRC and we can talk about it over a beer or 6 if you don't have it sorted out by then. (FWIW, I was the blue Civic trying to close in on you during the ARRC Sprint this year. Couldn't quite pull it off though... you've definitely got some straight line talent compared to where I was!).

Christian

[Marcus Miller]

I'm not implying... I'm flat out stating that there is a legal solution to your PS overheating problem. Sometimes the answer isn't to rewrite a rule, it's to think deeper and broader on how to take advantage of the current ruleset to solve your problem.

Tell ya' what, swing by my paddock at next years ARRC and we can talk about it over a beer or 6 if you don't have it sorted out by then. (FWIW, I was the blue Civic trying to close in on you during the ARRC Sprint this year. Couldn't quite pull it off though... you've definitely got some straight line talent compared to where I was!).

Christian

Christian is being modest, he has got an F`ing brilliant way of solving this....
Its very Penske-can-am/trans-am day of old esque. though, legal.

[Greg Amy]

OK: Uncle. I have no idea what you guys are talking about.

However, PS coolers are free simply because of D.3.b: "Oil cooler(s) may be added or substituted." Power steering is part of the engine. Power steering fluid is a hydraulic oil. It needs to be cooled.

Thus, power steering fluid radiators are free. Always have been.

GA, whose NX2000 came with a PS cooler from the factory; well, if you consider a steel tube that passes left then right across the front of the car a "cooler". SE-Rs actually have finned coolers stock...

[Rabbit07]

OK: Uncle. I have no idea what you guys are talking about.

However, PS coolers are free simply because of D.3.b: "Oil cooler(s) may be added or substituted." Power steering is part of the engine. Power steering fluid is a hydraulic oil. It needs to be cooled.

Thus, power steering fluid radiators are free. Always have been.

GA, whose NX2000 came with a PS cooler from the factory; well, if you consider a steel tube that passes left then right across the front of the car a "cooler". SE-Rs actually have finned coolers stock...

I am sorry if this seems like a stretch to me? Power Steering is part of the steering system, not the engine? Following your logic Greg, the transmission is part of the engine also since it bolts to the engine, so trans coolers are open also.

I am not trying to be arguementative, but I just interpret the rule differently.........