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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Bushkill PA
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    813

    Default WGI ITA track record

    I am very not happy. I just recently learned that the glen region is not recognizing Marc Cefalos ITA track record from the Last Chance regional. The previous day a GP, yeah GP honda CRX ran the enduro as an ita car. It ran 2/10ths faster than what Marc had run on sun during the regional.

    What i'd like to know since when do enduro times count as track records? How will they know who was driving the car? How do we know if the car was compliant to class rules without much if any type of tech inspection?

    This really sucks.

    BTW: I candy coated my real feelings.
    Crazy Joe
    #01 ITA
    Nissan Sentra SE-R
    www.kakashiracing.com
    [email protected]
    www.kesslerengineering.com (Matt's the man)
    First non CRX at IT Fest 2009 2nd place overall
    2008 ITA NARRC & NYSRRC Champion

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Greenfield, MA
    Posts
    397

    Default

    That sucks.
    But, AFAIK, enduros also run under an SCCA sanction number, thus making them sanctioned (i.e. regular/legal) events. So times recorded during them would count. Guess it's up to the region as to which driver is credited. I have run enduros where pits would come over and record who the driver was that just got into the car.
    As far as the GP car running as an A car, that's FUBAR. How'd s/he do that? Were they in fact set up to be able to run A legally?
    If not, then that's a slippery slope.....
    Stephanie Funk
    <Couple of NARRC and NERRC bragging things here>
    HP Honda CRX in progress, ITB Honda Civic, ITA Honda CRX, ITC Honda CRX
    "Green Booger Racing"

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Buffalo, New York
    Posts
    2,942

    Default

    You can cross a P car into IT...just need a cell and fire system.

    It would obviously not be a very competitive P car running with glass windows, an IT motor, IT transaxle, etc., etc.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Ligonier, PA, USA
    Posts
    1,676

    Default

    SM is a 1.17.0

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Northeast
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    7,031

    Default

    Joe,

    The first step is to find out who it is and ask them if its legit. If it's not - which I bet its not - meaning they wanted to run the enduro but GP wasn't allowed, they may volunteer to get it fixed.

    I do NOT think lap records should count in enduros. In the middle of the race, you can run light without the opportunity for a compliance check.
    Andy Bettencourt
    New England Region 188967

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Weare, NH
    Posts
    483

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Bettencourt View Post

    I do NOT think lap records should count in enduros. In the middle of the race, you can run light without the opportunity for a compliance check.

    +1

    Glenn Lawton
    GSMmotorsports
    #14 ITS RX7
    NARRC ITS Champion 2012
    NERRC ITS Champion 2013 12 11 10 09 08
    NERRC STU Champion 2010

    __________________

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    IT.com "First Loser" Greensboro, NC USA
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    8,607

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Bettencourt View Post
    Joe,

    The first step is to find out who it is and ask them if its legit. If it's not - which I bet its not - meaning they wanted to run the enduro but GP wasn't allowed, they may volunteer to get it fixed.

    I do NOT think lap records should count in enduros. In the middle of the race, you can run light without the opportunity for a compliance check.
    Some regions/tracks explicitly state that enduro records don't count simply for that reason. And because it's not entirely possible to be sure who was driving, so who to recognize.

    K

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Weare, NH
    Posts
    483

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Bettencourt View Post
    I do NOT think lap records should count in enduros. In the middle of the race, you can run light without the opportunity for a compliance check.

    +1 (again)

    Glenn Lawton
    GSMmotorsports
    #14 ITS RX7
    NARRC ITS Champion 2012
    NERRC ITS Champion 2013 12 11 10 09 08
    NERRC STU Champion 2010

    __________________

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    2

    Default

    Greetings fellow IT drivers

    From what I have heard through the grapevine, it sounds like it is
    time to clear the air about my lap times at the Watkins Glen enduro. Ken
    Buchel prepared the car to the current ITA specification to the best of my
    knowledge. I believe some people are a bit confused, because Ken owns 3
    Honda CRX race cars. One car is in H production, one in ITA and one in ITC.
    The paint and graphics are nearly identical on all 3 cars. The lap record
    times are not very important to Ken or myself, what is important is our
    integrity.
    In earlier posts we have been called cheaters by fellow drivers with
    little knowledge of the vehicle or it's level of preparation. Earlier posts
    have mistakenly identified the vehicle as a production car. Ken's production
    car is a far cry from this car's prep level. Ken Buchel's cars are
    beautifully built and run exceptionally well. It sounds like this is a
    matter for you to discuss at your next board meeting, not one to make
    personal attacks on the intergity of both Ken and myself via an online
    forum.
    If you have any questions please contact me at [email protected]

    Bryon Beiler

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Weare, NH
    Posts
    483

    Default

    .

    Thanks for the clarification Bryon, as a driver of one of
    two identically painted cars I am often accused of the
    shenanigans of my teammate so I understand fully.

    I didn't read all of the posts, but the ones I read weren't
    blaming you or your builder for cheating, rather were concerned
    that a crossover classed car (which yours is evidently not)
    claimed a track record without being fully vetted in the class.
    Your explanation that this was not an HP/ITA crossover certainly
    dispels this concern.

    I think that one of the larger questions is whether lap records
    earned in an enduro should be treated equivalently with those
    earned in a sprint race. The facts are, that in the enduro, the
    driver to be attributed is not certain, and the controls on
    weight during the race are not enforceable.

    In a sprint race the driver, and car with remaining fuel, is
    weighed. If it meets minimum at post race impound, it certainly
    was over the minimum at every time during the race, and hence
    during the record breaking lap.

    In an enduro, one of the drivers could weigh substantially less
    than the other(s), causing the car to go underweight, and/or
    the car could lose enough fuel during the race to go under
    weight. Either/both of these situations could be "corrected"
    during the enduro, so that the post race impound weight appears
    adequate.

    Therefore the controls on "during race" weight are not the same
    for enduros as they are for sprint races, and no one could
    be absolutely sure that the record breaking lap was made with
    a car that met the class minimum weight.

    So...for the reasons of driver attribution, and certainty of
    weight compliance, lap records won earned during enduros should
    not be given the same importance as those earned during sprints.

    .

    Glenn Lawton
    GSMmotorsports
    #14 ITS RX7
    NARRC ITS Champion 2012
    NERRC ITS Champion 2013 12 11 10 09 08
    NERRC STU Champion 2010

    __________________

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