Scca Itr Vs Jp Bmw Club Racing Car

[dj10]

Hey Dan.

Are there any items that are ITR legal but not JP legal?

What is the difference in weights?

How about suspension prep?

Does anyone have any lap time comparisons?

Hey Norris, how goes it out west?
I can answer a couple of your questions with out any research.
ITR is completely legal to run in JP class @ 2765#.

I'll double check on the weight unless someone else can answer that question.

I'm not certain about the suspension. I read the rule book but forgot.

At Summit Point, WVa., a JP car is about 1 to 1.5 sec faster on the 2 mile course. There is a link to a video that actually shows the difference between a JP 325 and a legal ITR car. search itr vs jp.

I copied this from the bmw rule book, just a few. :~)
a. Suspension components that control rear camber may be replaced with aftermarket components to provide this adjustment.


5. Suspension bushing material is free.
a. Bushing material does not include replacement of bushings with spherical bearings or rod ends such as Heim ends except as noted in F below.
b. Solid bushings are allowed if fixed in place and allow rotation in a single plane or axis.
6. Spherical bearings are permitted in the following components.
a. Front upper strut mounts.
b. Upper and lower rear shock mounts.
c. Rear lower control arms.
d. Camber plates.

Rotors are free (except carbon rotors are not allowed). The rotors must fit within wheels that comply with paragraph 3.A, above.
2. Calipers are free with the following limitations: 4 piston maximum, 2-piece design, 1 caliper per wheel.
3. The number of master cylinders must be as supplied by the factory, except that early production cars (i.e. 1600, 1800 and 2002) may update to tandem master cylinder for the safety of the dual circuit system.
4. Master cylinders may be modified to increase volumetric flow.

[JoshS]

Hey Norris, how goes it out west?
I can answer a couple of your questions with out any research.
ITR is completely legal to run in JP class @ 2765#.

Not anymore. First of all, you're talking about an E36 325i (you know there are other ITR and JP BMWs, right?)

Second of all, starting in '09, SCCA IT crossover cars have to run in their SCCA class, not in their equivalent Prepared class. So an ITS car would run as "ITS", not "JP."

Unless, of course, it's really fully legal for JP. Note that an IT car can have spherical bushings in places that aren't legal in JP. Don't know if YOU do or not. I did until just recently.

[Z3_GoCar]

Not anymore. First of all, you're talking about an E36 325i (you know there are other ITR and JP BMWs, right?)

Second of all, starting in '09, SCCA IT crossover cars have to run in their SCCA class, not in their equivalent Prepared class. So an ITS car would run as "ITS", not "JP."

Unless, of course, it's really fully legal for JP. Note that an IT car can have spherical bushings in places that aren't legal in JP. Don't know if YOU do or not. I did until just recently.

Another IT legal mod that's not JP legal is an aftermarket ECU, the JP guys have to reflash the stock Seimens unit, or if it's an e-36 325 can swap back to OBD I ( note all of us Z people have to stick with OBD II )

[dj10]

Another IT legal mod that's not JP legal is an aftermarket ECU, the JP guys have to reflash the stock Seimens unit, or if it's an e-36 325 can swap back to OBD I ( note all of us Z people have to stick with OBD II )

We're not talking about the little stuff. I'm talking about the kind of stuff that would let a JP E30 M3 pull a full built E36 326 by 10 cars on the straights. No way is this going to happen with a legal built E30 M3. Not even if the driver is Hans Stuck.

[benspeed]

I admit that I was pretty impressed with the speed of Ball's car so when I saw the JP stickers on the car I was concerned. Bill Ball the owner said it was built to the max over many years. I would expect a built to the max car would be taking advantage of all that can be done under JP rules. I plan on visiting the gentleman to request a look at his ride, hopefully with a BMW expert with me. I will have the JP rules in my pocket. I have discussed this with at least one club official.

[Doc Bro]

Yeah Ben,

I talked to him after last race and just said (tongue in cheek) "That track record will stand for a long time." I don't think he got what I was saying. I knew that the car was fast before last NJMP even happened. When I saw him signed up I checked the BMWCCA Club racing section of my last couple of Roundels and saw he was a JP winner at some events. There goes that. Fortunately for me he spun with 2 turns to go and handed me the win.....sometimes it's better to be lucky than good

R

[Z3_GoCar]

I wanted to let some of you who are interested what point out the between these 2 cars and classes are. It will be easiest to just show what the BMW JP cars are allowed that the SCCA ITR cars are not.

1. Cams
2. upgrade front and rear brakes to 4 piston calipers
3. Wings
4. Valve springs, keepers, etc. are open

Just to name a few things. A true built JP E36 325, 328, Z3 and/ or E30 M3 will NOT be legal in SCCA ITR.

I now return you to your normally scheduled programming.....

We're not talking about the little stuff. I'm talking about the kind of stuff that would let a JP E30 M3 pull a full built E36 326 by 10 cars on the straights. No way is this going to happen with a legal built E30 M3. Not even if the driver is Hans Stuck.

Oh, like the valve springs and keepers aren't little If you're looking for a major modification that'll pull 10 car lengths try a light weight aluminum flywheel. BTW, a new stock dual-mass is $647 from Pelican compared to a new aluminum is ~$400

[hondaman321]

I am not saying you and only you. Lots of cars are not legal. You def do not have stock valve springs, and when your car idles and sounds like the compression is way to high? I have seen stickley motors in the past that have switched hands and then torn down and has illegal parts in them, keepers, retainers, springs. Lets not get started. The fact is IT is getting like world challenge was when turner race it a couple years ago. Everyone cheated and you could not win if you were not cheating. Also I have watched your car in some corners. You can not be that fast when the car handles that bad. I am sorry, it goes for alot of cars out there.
Thanks,
Biff

[dj10]

I am not saying you and only you. Lots of cars are not legal. You def do not have stock valve springs, and when your car idles and sounds like the compression is way to high? I have seen stickley motors in the past that have switched hands and then torn down and has illegal parts in them, keepers, retainers, springs. Lets not get started. The fact is IT is getting like world challenge was when turner race it a couple years ago. Everyone cheated and you could not win if you were not cheating. Also I have watched your car in some corners. You can not be that fast when the car handles that bad. I am sorry, it goes for alot of cars out there.
Thanks,
Biff

Biff,
I can't speak for ever ITR car out there, but I can speak for my car. I will say that everything in my head, cams, springs, retainers and valves are totally stock and I can run 93 octane in my engine. You couldn't do that if your compression is high. Your the only person who has ever said that my car looks like it handles badly. I have had many people come up to me and say how good the car looks through turns. I'd rather get a 2nd place finish and be legal than to win a race and know I was illegal. If you believe me or not, I can't help that. All I can do is tell you the truth.