A Poll Regarding the IT Rules Set

[lateapex911]

from my own story.

I have a car that I am having a hard time making weight legally.

Here is where we currently sit.
Take the car COMPLETELY apart to bare shell, bead blast to remove ALL sound deadening,

I didn't bead blast mine...a scraper did the trick. My car had over 30 pounds of the stuff, and I left 25% of it. I tend to doubt that a horn is 30 pounds. or a washer bottle. More like 1.5.

Or we could remove horns, hvac, all bottles, etc. Window regulators...which BTW I never understood why we HAVE to run glass.

You don't. In exchange for you deciding to invest a few pound and little time in your won safety, you are allowed to remove all the door crap you list. Just add a horizontal bar that protrudes in the door cavity. See "NASCAR bars" in the GCR. That's a win win.

As for wipers and HVAC, see my previous post. Some folks need them...why should they be at a disadvantage? It doesn't cost anyone anything to leave the stuff in the car.

Sure weight is an issue and the cost of going to plexi...but the idea of getting hit with lots of crackling glass is a little frightening.

No offense, but you frighten easily. It's safety glass....when was the last time you heard about a guy in a full suit and gloves, with a helmet and probably some form of glasses and/or shield getting hurt by broken safety glass? That is SO not on my list of things I worry about.

Based on what has been discussed in the V2.0 process thread, someone stated that the point of IT was the have purpose built race cars, but from cars you would buy on the showroom floor. It was also said by an ITAC member that these cars are SUPPOSED to be trailers to each event.

Who said that?? We might suggest that yea, driving a race car to the track is increasing your odds of walking home, but I drove mine to the track for many events. Walked home twice. I had coilovers, and cranked 'em up when I was going too the event. And I had taller rear springs that I swapped in and out. PIA? Sure! But, I did it, and I'm proud to say that I was one of the fastest, if not the fastest of my class/type. We CAN do lots of things, but we CHOOSE to do things that meet our needs and wants.

Sorry if the above comes of frustrated...I just have a regular competitor in ITB that is making the jump to H-Production because he didnt read the rules [when he built his car to IT specs] and now he has to ADD all those items back into his car....so now he's out recruiting people to stop running in IT and run in Production...

So, he builds a car and doesn't read the rules...then poaches your buddies to leave the class and join him....THAT'S a reason we're supposed to change the rule book!? Priceless....

[GTIspirit]

I didn't bead blast mine...a scraper did the trick. My car had over 30 pounds of the stuff, and I left 25% of it. I tend to doubt that a horn is 30 pounds. or a washer bottle. More like 1.5.

You don't. In exchange for you deciding to invest a few pound and little time in your won safety, you are allowed to remove all the door crap you list. Just add a horizontal bar that protrudes in the door cavity. See "NASCAR bars" in the GCR. That's a win win.

As for wipers and HVAC, see my previous post. Some folks need them...why should they be at a disadvantage? It doesn't cost anyone anything to leave the stuff in the car.

No offense, but you frighten easily. It's safety glass....when was the last time you heard about a guy in a full suit and gloves, with a helmet and probably some form of glasses and/or shield getting hurt by broken safety glass? That is SO not on my list of things I worry about.

Who said that?? We might suggest that yea, driving a race car to the track is increasing your odds of walking home, but I drove mine to the track for many events. Walked home twice. I had coilovers, and cranked 'em up when I was going too the event. And I had taller rear springs that I swapped in and out. PIA? Sure! But, I did it, and I'm proud to say that I was one of the fastest, if not the fastest of my class/type. We CAN do lots of things, but we CHOOSE to do things that meet our needs and wants.

So, he builds a car and doesn't read the rules...then poaches your buddies to leave the class and join him....THAT'S a reason we're supposed to change the rule book!? Priceless....

Can I change my vote? I originally voted yes, but had doubts afterwards, doubts for similar reasons that Jake cited. IT is affordable Club Racing for streetable cars with minimal mods, that's the spirit, right? So on second thought I'm for maintaining the dual vestiges.

So, being "anti creep" in that area was really being rather backwards. For those that feel ECU cars have been getting a break, remember, the Process assumes a full tilt ECu will be used. The good news there is that yu can get great performance from ECUs that are very reasonable.

Maybe I'm flogging a dead horse, but as discussed elsewhere, there are some cars caught in the middle that can't take advantage of the open ECU rule because of the limitations imposed by the sensor rules. While yes, it is possible to get a useable ignition signal from the camshaft sensor, that signal is crap compared with that from a 36 tooth or 60 tooth crank trigger wheel. And that crappy signal will be a big handicap to finding any gains with a full tilt ECU. I'm mildly optimistic that this inequality will be resolved by the ITAC.

[Z3_GoCar]

.....You don't. In exchange for you deciding to invest a few pound and little time in your won safety, you are allowed to remove all the door crap you list. Just add a horizontal bar that protrudes in the door cavity. See "NASCAR bars" in the GCR. That's a win win.

As for wipers and HVAC, see my previous post. Some folks need them...why should they be at a disadvantage? It doesn't cost anyone anything to leave the stuff in the car.

No offense, but you frighten easily. It's safety glass....when was the last time you heard about a guy in a full suit and gloves, with a helmet and probably some form of glasses and/or shield getting hurt by broken safety glass? That is SO not on my list of things I worry about.

.....

Uh Jake,

If I remember correctly he's got a Volvo wagon, and is talking about the window glass from the second set of doors and wagon windows, I don't think door bars will help with those and last time I checked the side glass isn't safety, it's tempered as in shatters into tiny bits.

I've still not voted... how about adding the glove box to the list of stuff that can be removed from the interior? Oh, and technically I'm still required to have a seat heater as those aren't mentioned either. As for window fog it's called Fog-X same as Rain-X for the inside. Otherwise I've found the AC is much better at de-fogging the windshield than the heater.

[lateapex911]

Uh Jake,

If I remember correctly he's got a Volvo wagon, and is talking about the window glass from the second set of doors and wagon windows, I don't think door bars will help with those and last time I checked the side glass isn't safety, it's tempered as in shatters into tiny bits.

I've still not voted... how about adding the glove box to the list of stuff that can be removed from the interior? Oh, and technically I'm still required to have a seat heater as those aren't mentioned either. As for window fog it's called Fog-X same as Rain-X for the inside. Otherwise I've found the AC is much better at de-fogging the windshield than the heater.

OK, I guess I missed the part about it being the back doors. But the point remains, the stuff is hardly any more hazardous than gravel.

Also, think about it this way: Guys want to remove it for various reasons. The ITAC allows it. They just made a rule change that, what, hundreds or a thousand cars now will need to comply with.

You say, "Make it optional". Irrelevant. Most guys are far more concerned with becoming MORE competitive than with meeting rules just for the sake of meeting rules. They will change out that glass because it's 10 pounds way up high in the car that could be placed elsewhere, or left on the garage floor altogether. Of course, they'll need to source a replacement, or fabricate one.

Simply put, such a change alters the package that most will bring to the track, adds to the workload, and isn't needed. I just don't see a compelling reason to DO it.